Warlords- What is it good for, absolutely nothing ugh!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Shigga, Jun 6, 2006.

  1. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Oh yeah, I forgot that majority vote of posters is the way that truth is decided. I guess that means that Civ4 is great, after all, since that's what most posters on CFC think. Does that mean you'll stop posting now?
     
  2. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    No, it doesn't.
    Especially not as there is a difference between facts (my part) and tastes (your part).

    I really don't want to abandon people who want to inform themselves about Civ4 and its expansion to people like you, who close their eyes as far as facts are regarded. Even worse, if they try to use facts, they end at some obscure links they've found by Google and haven't understood.
     
  3. armchairknight

    armchairknight Warlord

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    Hello, Commander.

    Missing balancing? I've yet to encounter a perfectly balanced game more complex than, say, chess. There have always been cheap exploits and minor imbalances. That's not to excuse it, however. Makers of strategy games of all stripes should work harder to balance their wares. I agree that the game balance here seems a wee bit wobbly in places, but I don't find it to be remarkably so. The game is fun for me to play. Maybe that makes me more forgiving. Then again, maybe it's just not so very far out of whack either.

    Warlords. Man, I'm looking forward to the new stuff, but I'm a little concerned as well. Only because of the inconsistent quality of the Civ III expansion packs. Here's hoping and crossing my fingers.
     
  4. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Curiously, real life also suffers from this tremendous flaw. Human civilizations that didn't develop the use of metal tools, lagged far behind those that did. It must be a Firaxis conspiracy.
     
  5. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    Real life.... I hate that arguement. It is a game.

    In real life population in cities move from one to another.
    In real life Helicopters can fly over water.
    In real life it doesnt take 20 years to walk across a plot of land the size of a city.
    In real life a city expands onto the land around it.
    In real life we don't research one technology at a time.
    In real life there are natural disasters.

    It's is only a game. Games need balance.
     
  6. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    I agree with you that this imbalanced feature is nothing to completely ruin the game, although I have to admit that it is a little bit annoying.
    I also agree that there won't ever be a perfect game. But should this be the reason to brush those things under the carpet?

    I just added it to the other problems, bugs, imbalances and flaws, which have already been mentioned. And, unfortunately, there are quite some of them.

    Personally, I would be more than glad if the developers would be a little bit more careful with this game and its expansions.

    In regards to the WL expansion this is one of the reasons why I for my person am concerned about the implementation of the vassal state concept and the Warlords unit.
    We have made our experiences with patches and additions from Firaxis, and I am terribly sorry to have to state that these experiences proved that they often work in a sloppy way.

    To make this clear once more: I don't expect Firaxis to improve their quality if the whole community goes on praising and cheering, whilst there still are issues which better would be resolved.
    Let's put our fingers on what should be improved. If we don't do it, who would? And who would do the improvements, then?
     
  7. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    This argumentation is BS and even you should have recognized this.

    Nobody complains about having Bronze Working in the game.
    Nobody complains about Bronze Working releasing a certain military unit.
    Nobody complains about Bronze Working releasing the ability to chop forests.

    But, from the point of balancing, there is much to complain about that Bronze Working releases the strongest unit of that area AND the first ability to change the "environment" AND one at least somehow useful civic.

    And with Iron Working as a direct successor of Bronze Working, it is not much better.

    These combinations and the arrangement of those two techs make for an imbalanced portion of the tech tree, similar to how the early religions are arranged. Not to mention that this means a severe limitation of what has been called a "most flexible" tech tree.
     
  8. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Indeed, it borders on the unbelievable. Firaxis apparently thinks that using metal tools is a huge advantage, for a civilization. How could they have gotten that idea? Why don't they learn from all of those Stone Age cultures that grew to rule the world without bothering with metal tools?
     
  9. Commander Bello

    Commander Bello Say No 2 Net Validations

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    If you would have read a book from time to time, maybe one of them would have been a history book. And then you would have learned that chopping was something which was already known and practised in the stone ages.

    But, once again you haven't read. Neither the paragraph you quoted, nor other comments earlier.
    So, you still have to wait until somebody explains you the nature of balancing.

    For now, teaching you will not be continued by me and you will just have to wait until you are allowed to proceed to the next class.
     
  10. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    Hallelujah! Let no one say miracles aren't possible. Can you get your minions to stop "teaching" us, too? I can think of nothing that would benefit this forum more.
     
  11. armchairknight

    armchairknight Warlord

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    Commander Bello, may I introduce you to King Flevance...

    ;)
     
  12. Shigga

    Shigga Shiggadelic Baby! :)

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    Be nice ppl I didn't start this to have it turning into a flame war. :)

    To the question about future patches: dshirk from Firaxis stated in this very thread that the patches for vanilla and WL are independent which at least suggests there will be further patches for vanilla even after the WL release.

    Release _should be_ just around the corner so let's wait and see.

    Agree with Zombie on the PopRushExploit it should be nerfed.
     
  13. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    What would benefit this forum is if fanboys didn't come to this thread just to piss us off. This is a thread to complain about the game. If you've got nothing to complain about, be gone.
     
  14. armchairknight

    armchairknight Warlord

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    Well, in the spirit of your original post, I too play Sevomod 3.0 regularly and vanilla, and sometimes TAM. Yet, unless it's declared to be crap by those who've bought it ahead of me, I'm likely to buy Warlords. I can see your argument against doing so. It's a strong argument, IMO, but it is only one way of valueing Warlords. Sevo's mod has been a work in progress since he's started the thing. It will be patched and improved until he stops and moves on to another game. He makes big changes, too, as you know, not just little tweaks. Gameplay altering changes, like having to use infantry to capture cities. I like this change, BTW, but he's had to undo this because the cpu wasn't able to play that way. For a smallish sum, IMO, you can avoid most of this by purchasing Warlords. Yup, I know. Warlords is - ahem - a much smaller expansion pack. Sad, but true. I wish it had more in it. It does smack of milking the cash cow. Even so, it's likely to be reasonably stable. Much more stable than mods seem to be.

    And yeah, I agree with Zombie too on the Population Rush Exploit.
     
  15. armchairknight

    armchairknight Warlord

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    Uh...what?!? I've read the OP and that's not how I read it. Maybe you should take another gander at it.
     
  16. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    lol@knight.

    Honestly, I don't concern myself with how the game needs to reflect real life, as it is a video game. The great thing about the new tech tree in FfH2 is that you have to pick what direction you are going to go in. Each one hold military purposes, economic purposes, magical purposes, and so on. I don't know if it will change again one day for better balancing but the change from .12 to .13 was very noticable and alot better IMO.
    I think the reason it is more balanced than vanilla is that it isn't based on anything factual. It's seen as a game from moment 1 in design, which will always add MORE to a game's balancing than trying to model it off of something that isn't a game, like real life.
     
  17. armchairknight

    armchairknight Warlord

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    I hope you're not pointing and laughing at me. :)

    Actually, I've been tempted by the Fall from Heaven 2 mod. I might try it soon. What makes me just a little bit nervous is just how different it is from the vanilla.
     
  18. King Flevance

    King Flevance Deity

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    "Meet King Flevance" made me laugh.

    FfH2 is still a work in progress and it shows. But even being partly done, it has some very original ideas in it. I play slowly though especially now after the update. It usually takes me like 5 mins to pick my next tech because I play it on marathon which makes the techs com in at real slow speeds. It is nothing for me to see a tech cost 50+ turns early on and around 30+ turns once my economy is up and running.

    But also the beginning of every game is actually different because "fog busting" isn't always wise, especially if a Hill Giant lives nearby. Plus, the deeper you get in the tech tree in one area, the more your missing from another area. It makes you weigh your choices alot more I guess. The main downside I see to it right now, to me, is the slow load time on startup.

    A while back you said you wouldn't mind knowing if I am still playing Civ 4 when I buy WL at bottom dollar. I probably will, but it will be due to the FfH team and Sevo most likely. :p
     
  19. armchairknight

    armchairknight Warlord

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    Now you've made me laugh, King Flevance. You've surprised me into it. :) EDIT: Your last comment got me.

    And you figure Warlords should at least be worth a bargain purchase, which is a greater value than some have put on it. ;)

    All this talk has put me in the mood. I think I will give FfH2 a try this weekend.
     
  20. DaviddesJ

    DaviddesJ Deity

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    That's definitely not what the original thread was about. Read the first posting. You're saying that now you have highjacked the thread, and anyone who wants to respond to the original thread is unwelcome? Who appointed you to decide that?

    I would have absolutely no problem if you wanted to start your own thread, "Complaints about how Civ4 and Firaxis suck: No positive comments allowed", and then you and your three compatriots could post to each other all you want.
     

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