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Warmonger's Delight Part II - Aztec Style (AWN)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Nad, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. jameson

    jameson Chieftain

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    IHT: no changes

    1560 BC (1) Archer at Tenoch beats barb warrior gaining 2 XP. Also notice we haven't revolted to Slavery yet,do so right away.

    1480 BC (3) 2 barb warriors enter our cultural borders. Tenoch produces archer, starts another one.

    1400 BC (5) Our archer beats two barb warriors. I give him a shock promotion.

    1360 BC (6) Tenoch produces its final archer for our picket line, starts on the Oracle due in 18 but we can chop a bit. Iron working comes in, pottery is next in line.
    Here's the closest Iron:



    1240 BC (9) Archer and our scout hold off 2 more barb warriors. Teo completes its barracks, starts a jaguar.

    1160 BC (11) Pottery comes in, Writing ( for libraries) ordered up. Teo's borders expand.

    1080 BC (13) Our Scout defends against another barb warrior.

    1000 BC (15) Oracle comes in, I pick:



    Metal Casting. Could have delayed it a turn and picked up CoL instead, though.

    Reasons to choose MC:
    - Tenoch will soon actually benefit from a forge.
    - Teo will be slower, but can build a chop-assisted forge and go for the Colossus, which will boost our finances once we get all coastal towns set up.
    - We have no need for a second religion as we're hardly likely to run Free Religion once possible
    - 120 beakers saved is good business at this stage of the game.
    - MC is on the road to Machinery and the melee-murdering crossbowmen

    I debated going directly for a settler after the Oracle came in, but as it turns out Teno can churn out Stonehenge in a mere 9 turns, so I go for that instead. The barbs aren't swarming us yet so far.

    975 BC (16) Writing comes in, go for Fishing.

    950 BC (17) Kill another barb with our first 10XP unit ! I like the renaming idea, and he gets a suitable title ;) :



    925 BC (18) Kill yet another barb, Teo produces our first Jag.
    Since we're going to need to expand soon now, I set it to settler due in 12.

    900 BC (19) Our first jag gets its first victory. It needs to be promoted still.

    875 BC (20) Teo Corn comes online saving 2 turns on the settler. Worker's chopping at Teno to help complete Stonehenge 2 turns faster (due in 4 now).

    Fishing also came in, provisionally set to Masonry but feel free to change. The reason I'm going for the cheaper techs now is that according to an article in the strategy sections getting the prerequisites out of the way makes subsequent techs cheaper.

    Save attached below.
     
  2. ThERat

    ThERat Chieftain

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    got it, will play tonight,

    stupid question, how do you rename a unit, I once found that but forgot about it again :blush:
     
  3. Nad

    Nad Known Troublemaker

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    Great work, guys! Looks like a good start we've made. I like the barb farming :). Also remember that the barbs will make life hell for the other AIs too. At least we're aware of what's coming and can use the barbs to our purposes, the AIs will probably not fare as well.

    Excellent point jameson on resraching low-cost techs. With tech trading disallowed, we do not have to worry so much about the AIs streaking ahead. This means we can out-research them if we research smartly and efficiently. This means that unless there is a particular advantage of being first to a tech (wonder, bonus, military) we should instead look to complete all prerequisite techs before moving onto more advanced ones (eg currency before code of laws, that type of thing).

    Nad
    M60A3TTS
    jameson...just played
    ThERat...GOT IT
    katank...ON DECK
    bihary

    20 turns each first round.
     
  4. jameson

    jameson Chieftain

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    I only just figured it out too - click on the unit name in yellow in the lower-lefthand corner if the unit is selected.
     
  5. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I like your turns jameson. We are set to expand now aint we?
    I didnot advocate wonders too much so far but you wetted my appetite... I suggest to keep the great library in mind...
    We should discuss dotmaps. I would still get that pig + floodplains next (1 north from blue dot) to make a cottage factory (no farms needed!). That city will grow fast, and it can whip anything it wants. But maybe you can get iron within the borders of a similar city? I will have to look at the save.

    EDIT: I revised this, see my dotmap below.
     
  6. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Guys, wonders are great and all but we should still be realistic about usefulness. Have we built a galley yet?

    If we can't find coastal passage to other continents, then many wonders are good. Otherwise, thumping out a bigger military is better.

    I'm frequently guilty of wonder spam myself and am trying to break that addiction.;)
     
  7. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I made a dotmap. Followed the previous color code. Black and red are settled already.
    Blue is moved one east to get the iron. It should be a good city with many cottaged floodplains and with mines. Cottages!
    Yellow gets pig and rice, and some floodplains. Also some hills. Cottages!
    Pink gets pig, stone, copper. and lots of sea.
    Green gets clams and fish. Fishing village at its best, get the whip!
    Purple gets clam, spices and gems. Reasonably balanced.
    Orange gets pig and two gems. Balanced.
    Grey gets pig, rice, fish. Fishing village at its best. Get the whip!
    In the southeast we may wantto put a city. There is copper there.
    Never mind the desert northwest from our capital.
    OK, so this dotmap gets most of our resources, and there is minimal overlap. Still, we are talking 9-10 cities already :eek: Clearly, we have to priotrize. I would go blue, yellow very fast, then orange and pink.

    We have gems that can be mined before calendar, and with forges, it gives 2 happies. I do not think we are squezed for the calendar much here...

    Let us discuss.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I agree. we have a huge continent to settle. We have to be very efficient. The two wonders we are getting are great, but let us now expand. I would settle blue dot with the settler from our second city, then build two galleys there immediately and explore the west and then the east. (I would research sailing next to facilitate this.

    After the henge, capital should build a worker, jags, then a settler to settle yellow dot. After that, I would squeze in a library. After that, spit out two more settlers with archers/jags and workers and settle two more sites. We should be OK with 6 cities economically.

    I would push towards currency, then code of laws, get courthouses and 1-2 markets in our best commercial towns. I would build and *use* cottages galore. We are blessed with many food resources and floodplains, so cottaging rather than farming is possible throughout our lands. Our cities can grow up to 8-9-10-11, so we should plan ahead and maximize hammers and commerce for this kind of size. We should eventually be able to spam our continent with 9-10 cities without going bankrupt. We dont need much military in the expansion phase, only some jags to smash those barbs around. Therefore I would start with granaries, forges, courthouses in our new cities. Our two existing barracks should be able to train enough troups. Barracks can be added everywhere once we go for the kill (which may indeed be only after astronomy...)

    Wonders... I would only consider the Great Library, in our capital. With no tech trading, it could make a big difference, and we are already committed in our capital with Great People points, no point in spreading those out.

    The Colossus I would not consider. We do not have that many cities that rely on the sea. Also, it expires with astronomy, and we very well may be pushing towards that pretty soon...
     
  9. ThERat

    ThERat Chieftain

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    Location:
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    save

    Pre-Turn
    MM to speed up growth in capital while stonehenge is still due in 4

    1. 850BC
    worker finishes chop at capital

    2. 825BC
    we finish stonehenge and screen zooms so far out I can't even see what the barbs are doing
    Judaism has been founded somewhere
    2 archers beat barb warriors that intruded into our land

    3. 800BC
    masonry is in, sailing for galleys next in 5
    what's up with the barbs that keep on avoiding to attack?
    defeat one of them again in our lands

    4. 775BC
    next warrior defeated with archer on defense this time
    forest chop speeds up our settler

    5. 750BC
    beat yet another warrior on defense
    capital finished a jag, goes for library for 1 turn for growth
    Teotihuacan goes for jag until we get sailing
    settler proceeds to blue dot

    6. 725BC
    one warrior bites the dust
    change capital to settler

    7. 700BC
    another one bites the dust, dum dum dum, another one bites the dust
    Tlateloco founded on blue dot

    8. 675BC
    sailing is in, maths next
    Buddhism spread to our new city already :)
    change production to galley in Teotihuacan

    9. 650BC
    we lose a scout on defense the was busting fog against a warrior
    great news as the newly mined hill reveals copper that is even hooked up already to our empire :dance:
    this drops our settler by 2 turns :)

    10. 625BC
    a jag kills the first archer we have encountered
    then beat 2 barb warriors with archers

    11. 600BC
    beat another warrior with a jag

    12. 575BC
    capital finishes next settler and send out to yellow dot
    continue library
    whip a galley in Teotihuacan since it needs only 1 pop for that to save 4 turns

    13. 550BC
    a warrior invades our territory, galley is sent out and city goes back to build another jag, we need more border patrols

    14. 525BC
    Texcoco founded, starts a galley since it is in the north and saves a lot of turns to explore

    15. 500BC
    2 warriors are defeated by jags on defense, jag finished in Teotihuacan, start a 3rd worker there

    16. 475BC
    spot an new barab archer in the distance, we need some more defense, maybe an archer

    17. 450BC
    capital finishes library, goes for axe in 2
    jag beats up an archer

    18. 425BC
    archer defeats archer on defense

    19. 400BC
    maths is in, currency next in 14
    first axe is in, go for next settler for the orange dot
    galley spots horses on one of those offshore Islands

    20. 375BC
    Teo gets worker, go for monastery so we can spread faith
    check the happiness there, the one unhappy citizen should disappear after a few turns
    chop the hill for more hammers as well

    and there we go, spot Incan border and we are at war :eek:

    we have a worker close to the iron to hook it up
    I tried to go for cottages as much as possible, especially all the flood plains, great source of commerce

    we will get a Great Prophet in 3 turns that can improve the financial situation as well

    our land


    Incan border
     
  10. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    :hammer: Great turns ThERat! Now that we have a reachable enemy... we have *options* in strategy :hammer:

    Am I up yet?
     
  11. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I suggest we try to pillage and park the Inca. A guerilla archer and a woodsman axeman pair could do it. I would not go to full-scale war with them before catapults. Rather settle at least 2 more cities, and build up infra. That horse should be settled sometime, but let us see how strong the Inca navy is...
    My suggestions for our city names:
    Capital (or leave it Tenochtitlan, that is the only Aztec city name I can remember, all the rest sounds the same to me, sorry for being so inadept in foreign cultures :blush: )
    SheepCoast (red dot)
    IronField (blue dot)
    PigRice (yellow dot)
    If there is happyness problem in SheepCoast, it should build a temple. Good call whipping that galley! But usually I try to whip for more than 1 population, the unhappiness penalty is always only one. I do not think we need a monastery now that the hendge is ours. We also need another galley from there soonish to transport our pillage party.
     
  12. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Yes, the exploration to the west paid off :goodjob:

    My turn now, I got the save and am checking it out. I'll probably do a reconaissance in force of Inca's lands with a bunch of pillaging.

    :devil: burn, baby, burn!

    We should definitely go for cats before attacking seriously. I can probably try to pick off a fringe city or two but that probably will hurt us more than them.:rolleyes: We'll see.
     
  13. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    preturn: vetoed monastery. With henge, we can afford to wait a while. Build axe instead to pillage

    park the Inca. Renamed archer in the south to be the Tundra Guard due to terrain and archer to the

    north as Real Shocker due to promo. Both boys were 10xp which was a good threshold.

    Goal for my turn, settle orange and pink and go smack the Incas around a bit.

    Turn 1 (350): Galley finds an inlet on Inca coast. Can see 3 tiles straight into Inca territory and

    still no sign of city. This much culture, must be capital.

    Moving Real Shocker back to exchange guard with archer in capital. Must keep farming barb xp

    intelligently. No need for 10xp units to make tons of kills.

    Turn 2 (325): Worker actions, nothing interesting. We desperately need a road to our west coast.

    Turn 3 (300): Great Prophet born. Built a shrine.





    Turn 5 (225): Archer in jungle defeats barb archer nary a scratch. Two barb warriors to the

    northeast.


    Turn 6 (200): Barb archer dies to defending axe on hill IBT (3.7/5). Advanced settler to orange dot,

    found next turn. Killed a warrior with a jag.

    Turn 7 (175): Smacked a barb warrior with jag. Founded Gem City (Orange dot). More barbs and we see a

    barb in Inca's lands too. There's bananas and dyes in Inca lands.


    Turn 8 (150): Churning out archers from Teo. Question on promotions. Please don't promote unless you

    have to. Our jags don't need combat promotions when defending in favorable terrain against weaker

    barb units. Not bad in demographics: 1 or 2 in everything that matters.





    " align="http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5737/demographics00007yb.th.jpg" border="0" />" align="http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2379/barbs00004hh.th.jpg" border="0" />" align="http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2237/incanfront00006pw.th.jpg" border="0" />" align="http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/5613/prophet00006of.th.jpg" border="0" />
     
  14. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Hmm, thumbnails not working. Links seem to work though. Bihary, your turn!
     
  15. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    Nice turns. I am home with my sick daughter and she is using the comp watching movies :mad: Should be able to play tonight though. We have moved very fast so far, let us pause for a bit of discussion.

    This is an interesting point, as we can surely hurt the Incas. And we can surely use some infra-improvement at home. People before me sure did a good job doing both... Should I now commit to one course, or should I keep it balanced? Hmmm...

    What should be the fate of the lands of our Meso-American friend? Occupying/ settling the Inca lands sounds a bit overstretching to me, but we could surely use the resources over there. A surgical strike against their capital sounds like a plan. They will be then smoked, and we could hold the city, right? Right?

    I will have to look at the save, I am very open to discussion.
     
  16. M60A3TTS

    M60A3TTS Ex-treadhead

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    I would be selective about settling their lands. We don't want science dropping off too much due to over-expansion. As far as infra goes, keeping it balanced is a good idea. It will be a while before we have adequate water transport.
     
  17. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Their capital is unimproved and has not even roads connecting them. My guess is they went lazy on the workers and may not even have much of a road network.

    If we send a search and destroy team of say a axe and a spear, we can hunt down his metal supply and cut it. Failing that, cut the roads around so that they have a maximum of 1 units production city.

    Code of Laws is done. We try and sack their capital with some promoted jags while doing some pillaging. Meanwhile, we finish settling our continent and build some courthouses.

    I know that long goto's are generally bad in SGs but I have a goto on the galley recently build that's heading west. We should ferry a critical mass of troops over to the Incas fast.

    If we can take over his entire continent fairly fast, we'll have an enormous advantage in tech once all that land is developed.

    Besides, the longer we delay meeting other civs, the longer time there is for them to bicker among themselves. Let's focus on wiping out the Incans.
     
  18. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Including the settler I already have heading to a site, let's build another one and send it to the east to build on the sheep and fish site.

    With those two cities, we have a lot less fog and can free up some fog busting units to head west.

    Sack their capital and take their other cities whenever we have the military power.

    Don't worry about science dropping off. A lower percentage of a big number is still better. Besides, the longer we have the cities, the longer we can develop them. As long as science doesn't drop to 0 with us losing money and units on strike, we'll be fine. That seems unlikely given that we have currency, code of laws, and even a shrine.

    Maintenance per city maxes out at 6. Courthouse cuts it in half. Add in a missionary (shrine gold), we only pay 2 gold per city max. I'm positive that any city we take will pretty much be able to pay for 2 gold either in commerce or beakers.

    Besides, our economy is not going to crash with some massive cottage spamming that we started on our continent.
     
  19. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I will do that.

    I think it is only the distance maintanance that maxes out at 6. Number of city maintanance can make it grow much higher. I have surely seen maintanances of 8-9. Having said all that, we should be fine up to 12-15 cities if we can indeed build those courthouses and marketplaces. Also, the Forbidden Palace should be built probably in Incaland. Anyone knows exactly what are the requirements for FP on a standard map? I have had unexplainable confusion in one of my games with this once...

    We should still scout out the naval perimeters of MesoAmerica :p . If we are seperated from the others by ocean, we should unify MesoAmerica soon indeed. If we are connected to others as well, the equation becomes more complicated.
     
  20. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Depends, even if we can reach other civs, we should probably wipe the Incas out first. We can only realistically absorb a certain amount of territory at a time. The other front will be turned into a defensive operation. Let's not become WWII Germany.

    Then again, limited war AW noble is a bit too easy. So maybe all out craziness.

    The question is fun (fight everyone at once) or win (one at a time, sure but steady).

    FP has requirement of 6 courthouses and 8 cities. The city building FP must have a courthouse as well.
     

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