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Warmonger's Delight Part II - Aztec Style (AWN)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Succession Games' started by Nad, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. jameson

    jameson Chieftain

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    On strategy: I'm for taking the Inca capital, should be enough to hobble them completely and gobble up the rest of their lands at our leisure when we can afford it. No harm in waiting to do so until we get pults though, archers with 40% extra defense will be nasty.

    On the FP:
    I'm wondering whether Tlatelolco isn't actually a more efficient place for a new centre of government ( will reduce costs on the Northern and Eastern cities on our continent). But maybe we can get a prophet for Divine Right and Versailles there instead and build the FP in Incaland after all.

    As Buddhism spreads, a market in Tenoch could also become valuable for the improved shrine income.
     
  2. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Don't worry too much about Versailles or moving the palace. We will be rich enough with our cottage spam and shrine income to last us until the rise of the communist Aztecs! State property will fix everything.

    Inca's capital might be a bloodbath to take without pults as jags are a bit weak. Main problem is killing the top defender. 2 garrison promos means 70% city defense IIRC. Anyhow, I think the raw strength on that thing is like 9.2 or so right now.:eek: bomb it down or prepare to lose at lest 2 jags killing that thing.
     
  3. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I looked at the save. Everything looks great.

    Here is my plan after our discussion: As bloodthirsdy we are and AW and all, I will concentrate on infra and war preparation during my turns. Construction is due in 15 turns or so, that is a "military focus-point". I will make sure that as soon as we can, we will have 3 catapults ready to ship to the Incas, together with a strong enough force already there to take the Inca capital. We shall have 3-4 galleys, 2 of them committed to military transport, and I intend to scout our immediate surroundings. Not to find new enemies, but to know from where to expect them.
    In the meantime, I will scout the Inca lands out and destroy any capacity they may have to produce advanced forces. Pillaging their metal and horse, but keeping in mind that their land is gonna be ours soon...

    At home, I will settle 2 or 3 new cities and develop our infrastructure. We have too few workers, I will remedy that. Our capital shall have a forge and a marketplace.

    This is the plan. Let us see if it survives contact with the enemy :lol:
     
  4. jameson

    jameson Chieftain

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    Get all that done and you deserve a medal :).
     
  5. ThERat

    ThERat Chieftain

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    plans sound good, just do not overstretch our empire. Also be aware that we will get WW if we have many units in enemy territory. Might be wise to sack the Incan capital and rest there for a while.
     
  6. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I always wanted to ask but never dared... Isn't there a special rule limiting WW when playing AW? I never had WW as a problem (in fact I never noticed it kick in) when playing AW, but maybe I always finished my games too soon, one way or the other :mischief:
     
  7. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    WW does kick in in AW. It's just very low. Perhaps even lower than when defending in a regular game.

    I had a dragged out brawl with Persian in my last AW game and I noticed 1 pt of war weariness in one of my core cities. It's no biggie.

    I don't think the number of units in enemy territory that is the biggest factor in WW. I think the XML files value killing back and forth the most in WW calculations with exception of nuke exchange.

    We do have waay too few workers. I should fixed that but I chose to pump some military to try and put some pressure on the Incan boys sooner as well as settle like a madman to eliminate fog and free up more units. Our cities to the east need some serious work. I have a worker working on the highway to the west though.

    Once we get construction, I think we can research whatever the heck we want. Unless you guys want the great library. It seems too late and we are three techs away without marble.

    My hunch with respect to exploration is that Incas are the only guys directly reachable right now. There are no islands to the east and we probably need to bomb out our culture a bit before galley exploration in that direction becomes feasible. We might be able to reach a new victim from the Incan lands though. Also a spot of luck that we can hit the Incans. Their financial trait makes them probably the only one that can even hope of keeping up with us in tech.
     
  8. ThERat

    ThERat Chieftain

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    Once AW option is ticked, WW get's a modifier (something like 100% reduction in the early stages). It will start to kick in however at later stages. Especially long offensive wars will give WW. It can be fought by keeping units in your own territory or of course, eliminating the AI.

    You should try and play AW long enough and WW will be a serious issue that has to be battled with state police, jails, Mt Rushmoore etc.
    Free religion is another great option to gain more happy faces.
     
  9. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I will get us n-1 workers where n is the number of our cities. I will chop wherever there is an odd number of forests around a city. I will improve our road network. You have used our rivers/ coastlines in a very inovative way to ensure trade-routes, but we do need roads for unit movement.

    The Great Library is an open question for me. We do not need those techs up there SO MUCH, but the epics would be nice too. We do need to plow our way in the down-branches, with feudalism and the sailing techs.

    I basically agree with your hunch. I looked at the save. On the eastern coast there is one tile I need to check (I will, first thing with that scout), and then we can conclude there is ocean all around there. Same to the south, and besides we are close to the south pole, so there is noone down there. Up in the north there are some irelands, I wish we have gone there with our northern galley. I am afraid there are hostile powers up there, maybe reachable.

    Meeting the commercial Incas, who are for some reason very weak, exactly at the dawn of catapults... That is extremely good luck. Let us see how we can take advantage of that... :satan:
     
  10. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Crush em all! An epic island hopping exercise to the North will be great. but probably wouldn't happen.

    Our trade routes are indeed driven almost exclusively by coasts and rivers. We only need a East-West backbone for now with a few branches to the side.

    With exception of the southeast, barb problem are largely over and we don't need roads to the east nearly as badly. Those cities should build infra and not units first. Thus, no need to send units to or from the east more or less with exception of workers who don't need roads as badly. Improvements should probably take priority. Also, let's please keep in mind that we would like to be able to build irrigation chains to resources and also plains tiles once civil service comes in. Having to pave over cottages later sucks.
     
  11. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    Well, at the end of my turns, we are making 1 gpt at 10% science, lost 3 axemen to barbarians and the Inca sacked our capital. Sorry, just kidding. :lol: Report coming soon.
     
  12. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    Preliminary thoughts.

    We want to unite Meso-America. The Inca does not understand our noble intensions, and we are in war. Be it, let iron and blood write history. Iron we do have, but the Inca are hiding behind well-protected stockades and we need to destroy those before our glorious footmen can advance against them. The technology of Construction is needed to build catapults to this end, and we are 12 turns away from discovering it. Enough time to prepare for a decisive war. No point in bleeding aimlessly at the Incan walls with insufficient forces, we shall attack with overwhelming strength when the time is right.
    We have placed a party of two brave axemen on the Incan continent, they will search and destroy the crucial military resources of our enemy. Soon, another archer/jaguar party will join them for the same purpose. Ideally, some of these pillagers will return to the Incan capital in time to participate in THE SIEGE.
    What kind of force is necessary for THE SIEGE besides our pillagers? 3 catapults, 2 axemen, 3 jaguars, 2 archers sounds adequate not only for capture of the Incan capital, but also as a secure garrison and as the kernel of a steam-roller military push against the heathens. We will need our most experienced troops in this operation.
    Unfortunately, our sacred homeland is also besieged by barbarian forces. We have been very successful to defend and expand our civilization against these intruders, but they still pause a viable threat to our security. What is the adequate force to deal with this menace? 1 archer/ city + 1 archer, 1 warrior, 1 axeman, 1 jaguar to boost our defenses and to deal with hot spots. The necessary manpower must come from our 3 military producer cities with barracks in the given timeframe. Our economy should be committed to this much military production, not less and not more. The rest (if any) should go to much needed infrastructure. We need more workers to improve the land. I am planning on a settler to found yet another glorious Aztec city. We need granaries and courthouses in our new towns, and forges and marketplaces in our old cities. Let us see how much we can manage.

    After opening the save
    Renamed some cities. Red dot is now SheepCoast. Blue dot is now IronField. Yellow dot is now PigRice. Changed PigRice to worker. Moving eastern scout to eastern coast to check last coastal passing point there.

    175AD
    SheepCoast worker – archer
    IronField temple – archer
    Scout scouts coast. Indeed, on the east we are completely surrounded by ocean.
    Archer withdraws to Beach.
    With northern galley, I decide to scout the north-western islands. One galley is enough to transport the pillagers for now.

    225AD
    Barb archer is defeated by jaguar near the tundra.
    Barb warrior is defeated by archer fortified in Pebble.
    Founded NorthClam at the northern rivermouth (purple dot). Started courthouse.
    RealShocker and TundraGuard are loaded in a galley to go pillage.

    275AD
    I whip a worker (2 pop) at SheepCoast.
    Start a settler at IronField.
    Move settler from Tenochtitlan to the west to go for the horse on that island. Start forge.
    Go for chops at Tenochtitlan and at SheepCoast.

    300AD
    I find Incan copper with my elite archer team and unload on top of it. There is an archer and an axeman in a neighbouring Incan city.
    PigRice worker – workboat

    325AD
    I pillage the Incan copper. Beat a quetcha in Incaland. Inca are ridiculous! They have 3 underdeveloped cities from all I can see.

    475AD
    Founded HorseIsland.
    Desperately trying to get the highly experienced units to the west while new units take their place. Workers hooking up the east…

    500AD
    PigRice workboat – worker
    Construction in, started Polytheism. Let us go for literature and try the Great Library. We may well lose it, but the down branch techs are just too expensive right now.
    IronField settler-jaguar
    SheepCoast archer-forge

    520AD
    Tenochtitlan catapult-catapult

    540AD
    Defeat a barb warrior and prepare to found EastCoast.

    560AD
    Founded EastCoast on the western… no, wait, on the eastern coast to get that pig, rice, fish. Gems come online, with forges we are OK happywise for a while.
    We now have 3 catapults, marching to the west. Started a marketplace in Teno.

    600AD
    whipped forge in SheepCoast, started workboat, as we have some seafood to net.

    Catapults are on their way. 2 more units waiting for shipping on the western tip, a galley is coming to get them. Altogether, we will have three catapults, two elite archers, one more archer, three axemen and two jaguars to smack the Inca. Czuczo is defended with 3 units. The Inca have an axeman and a spearman, and some archers/ quechas. Should be a walk in the park to conquer them. Our elite archers are guarding the copper, if you want to, you can move them north to take part in THE SIEGE. I think we have enough troops to crash the Inca. At home, we have an archer in every city, and some other forces to handle hot spots. We now have enough workers, although so far I was busy roading and getting resources. More improvement is necessary, but we have the workforce to do it. I really think we can now concentrate on infrastructure in our cities.
    There is a barb village close to the northern shores of Incaland.
    We are making 1 gpt at 40% science, it should improve with many courthouses and marketplace building.
    We are only second in GNP and population, and Homer was born 3 turns ago… Someone already has Music?

    Don't forget the :whipped: !

    Some screenies:
     

    Attached Files:

  13. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    And the savefile.
    Crush the Incas, but be gentle to our economy! ;)
     
  14. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Looks good. Let's unite Mesoamerica. We also need more slaves and sacrifices to the serpent god.:p
     
  15. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    I wonder why the Inca are so backwards... I found only a mine on the copper worth pillaging :eek: . Probably they got unlucky with raging barbs...
    I could have explored more to the west in their continent, but I wanted our guys close to Czuczo for the siege. I have a galley pushing west on the northern coast. I suggest after the immediate war transport is done, take one of our two galleys to scout the south coast of their land. I also suggest one more galley from PigRice to check that northern island. That is the only potential crosspoint leading to/ from our continent, gotta check it out! We will need many galleys once contact with the others is made. We need to protect at least our seafood from pillaging. From some sea-based AW reports I read, this seems to be a great issue. Let us be prepared!

    I would not be sad if we ran into another civ at this point. The Inca are history, and we can switch to military production anytime we wish. :ninja:

    Looked at the save again. As frantically I have been advocating cottages, I did not build a single one during my turns! :blush: Too busy building roads... And pigs burried in jungle just gets me irrational... I cannot think of anything else but those fatty, juicy hams... (No offense meant against followers of religions triggered by Monotheism or Divine Right. :worship: )
    Please build more cottages :D

    If we are stuck within Meso-America till astronomy, we should build more wonders in our capital. Our stone is close to being hooked up. We could try the pyramids after all. Or Hanging gardens could be nice for the population in our many cities. (health we have galore). I would concentrate all our great wonders in the capital, no point in spreading out the GP points. National Epic can go there too. Later Wall street, if we ever get there. The Heroic Epic should go elsewhere (IronField?)

    We also have our second Great Prophet coming. You know what? I would make a superspecialist in Teno, if we cannot get a nice tech. If we can get something like Monarchy, I would do that.

    Monotheism for Organized Religion could be nice... Or not... It helps building infrastructure, and we could build missionaries anywhere, but it is quite expensive.
     
  16. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    O man, nothing like the MesoAmerican scenario in civ3 conquests... I played that for half a year, even designed a scenario file for it, so I could do it on random maps... Nothing like sacrifying slaves for culture.
     
  17. Nad

    Nad Known Troublemaker

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    I'm up, I'll have a look at the progress we've made tonight and then look to play.
     
  18. katank

    katank Chieftain

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    Yeah, that was fun.

    You are right about the galley thing. Let's get a fleet of 4 galleys up so we can explore and ferry.

    Might be too late for Pyramids as we are well into the ADs.

    Settling the prophet might be a good idea overall. The game will last for a while and we don't particularly need some tech that badly right now. His gold contribution will be tripled by the market/grocer/bank/Wall Street combo in the shrine city of Teno hammers don't hurt either.
     
  19. jameson

    jameson Chieftain

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    Agreed, joining the Prophet is probably the smartest move. No techs before Theology are costly enough to justify blowing a GP on imho.

    I'm not that convinced we can still grab the Pyramids, but the Hanging Gardens is probably worthwhile to shoot for. OR we could make a run at the Pyramids anyway for the cash it could gain us.
     
  20. bihary

    bihary Chieftain

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    Well, I have to apologize. As the screenies show, the pyramids have been built by Japan in 540AD, during my turns. I even had a screenshot about it, but I somehow forgot. Also, the Parthenon has been built by Mongolia in 75BC. That about explains the appearance of Homer during my turns. So noone has got as far as Music yet, making the Great Library still a possibility. I think we should go for it. Even if we lose the race, we get some much-needed gold for our efforts. The Great Lighthouse was built by Greece.

    Looking at the Demographics, wonders, and top 5 cities, I can see the following picture:
    1. We are way bigger than others, yet there is someone with greater GNP and greater population. I think it is the Greek. Maybe they got stuck in a smallish, but nice continent, and they have been building vertically rather than horizontally. They also must have galleys now.
    2. The Mongols also look strong.
    3. Japan built the pyramids, but what does that mean?
    4. Where is Napoleon? No wonders from the industrious guy?
    5. Inca must be dead last looking at their empire and numbers in demo.
    6. Trade is shown to be 0/0 for everyone. Even if some of our enemies are in contact, they have not yet established trade.

    On land improvement: Teno and IronField needs some irrigation and mining, the others can concentrate on cottages I think.
     

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