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Warmongers, lookie here please.

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by WickedSmurf, Aug 22, 2003.

  1. WickedSmurf

    WickedSmurf pr0

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    If you, like me, are a warmonger and aim to fight for your right in every game, could you please give me some input here...

    I am still undecided on what civ is the best for warmongering, if there is one. Mostly I go with mil or exp and some other trait, preferrebly ind. Yesterday however I thought I'd go for another approach and try to be a builder... *shrugs* I remained a builder almost until 2000 BC. =) Then all hell broke loose again. Being Babylon, rel & sci, I had the biggest culture so all cities I captured remained mine. Not one flip!

    So, the question, warmongers, is what civ do you use in a game (emperor or deity, huge pangea is what I play) in which you know there will be lots and lots of wars? Also I want to know why so please explain your answers.

    Thank you.

    PS I am not a fan of polls so I won't put one up.
     
  2. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    Best warmonger civ? Tough call, but I think my money's on China. Industrious is the best trait, Militaristic is nice for extreme warmongering and the Rider is a killer UU.
     
  3. Bretwalda

    Bretwalda Warlord

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    Japan is great too, or Aztec for early Jag rush... (both mil/rel)
     
  4. En passant

    En passant Chieftain

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    As a warmonger, the road infrastructure is very important for multiple campaigns, since you will be moving your forces from one part of your territory to another regulary. Therefore the industrious trait is even more important for a warmonger.

    The second trait is a matter of taste, either militaristic or religious.

    I usually prefer Egypt or China. If I aim for a domination victory I like Egypt best, for conquest I prefer China.


    /En passant
     
  5. Norlamand

    Norlamand Procrastinator Rex

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    I'd tend to agree with The Last Conformist, China has a great combo of traits and UU for warmongering. The Ottomans also work out nicely if you delay the warmongering until you have the Sipahi (which dominate their age as offensive combat units go). A wave of Riders or Sipahi will spell doom for your opponents. The only disadvantage to the Ottomans is the lower appearance of great leaders.
     
  6. anarres

    anarres anarchist revolutionary

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    Another agreeing for China here, although the Arabs and the Ottomans are also very good.

    China has to take it though for the best 2 warmongering traits and a move 3 knight UU. I used to consider the Rider the best UU overall, but Ansars are looking better every time I play them, and the just-in-time Sipahi are up there too.

    And to all who still fail to see the use of a Militaristic UU: try playing China a few times. ;)
     
  7. Arathorn

    Arathorn Catan player

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    China, Japan, Arabia, Ottomans, Iroquois, Vikings all have excellent UUs and solid traits. Germany does, too, but the game is usually decided long before tanks are on the scene -- especially if you're warmongering early and often.

    China is probably my first choice, with Japan a very close second. On pangea, Vikings are probably lower and it's hard to get a good mounted warrior rush on deity, so probably Ottomans third with Arabs fourth.

    YMMV of course,
    Arathorn
     
  8. SolarFlare

    SolarFlare Privateer at large

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    I would like Industrious and Militaristic. The only civ with those traits is Rome, and unfortunately, although they have a killer UU, it comes too early for a huge map.
     
  9. anarres

    anarres anarchist revolutionary

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    Umm, isn't CHINA Industrious and Mil? ;) (deja vu?)

    Rome is Militaristic and Commercial....
     
  10. SolarFlare

    SolarFlare Privateer at large

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    What the ****... the manual begs to differ... however I think you may be right. Now I'm utterly confused.

    [edit: I opened up the new game screen. You are absolutely correct. I feel deceived by the manual. Don't worry, it got what it deserved.

    Now I would absolutely choose China. Their UU comes at a time when the expansion phase is pretty much over, so you can focus on military. Plus the fact the the UU's "bonus trait" is movement - this is ideal because it's a huge pangaea map.]
     
  11. SirPleb

    SirPleb Shaken, not stirred.

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    I think the list of Civs which are not good choices for war mongering on a huge pangaea is smaller than the list of good ones :)

    Militaristic is good but to me it isn't an overriding priority for this kind of map. It gives cheap barracks, cheap harbors, and faster unit upgrades. On this kind of map cheap harbors aren't a big help and cheap barracks are only a small help, limited to Ancient Times. (Because Sun Tzu's should be a top priority when war mongering on huge pangaea :) )

    Industrious, Expansionist, and Religious are all good. Industrious for obvious reasons; Expansionist is good on this kind of map; Religious is nice for the option to flip government a bit more often and to get some cheap culture.

    I think that Commercial is less useful in this context than the other traits and that Scientific is even less useful with its only significant benefit being cheap culture.

    So I'd put Scientific Civs at the bottom the list, with Greece (Scientific + Commercial and a poor UU for warmongering) standing out as a particularly ill suited Civ.

    I like some additional Civs to those that others have already noted for these settings. E.g. I played my last HOF game as Egypt (Industrious + Religious) and found them quite good for huge pangaea warmongering. The War Chariot is a very nice UU because it is a 2/3 cost Horseman whereever terrain isn't a problem. Since you can continue building them even once Horseback Riding is discovered it is possible to build a large number of War Chariots in preparation for the Knight upgrade.
     
  12. SolarFlare

    SolarFlare Privateer at large

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    But the thing about Militaristic is more great leaders, which are necessary to make up for the lost production time taken up by building military units.
     
  13. Spike59

    Spike59 Chieftain

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    I find it very easy to play as the Iroquois. The expansion trait with the scouts gives a you a huge jump in science. The Mounted Warrior is a great UU; it can be used up until knights are around. I have found myself starting wars as soon as I meet another civilization and continuing until I have a domination or conquest win. Taking over cities early in the game is quite useful because the function as well as you own for most of the game. If you take over a city late in the game you spend most of the time building temples, cathedrals, market places, etc.

    For me this is style of play is quite a change, I have been mostly a builder. It makes the game more fun.
     
  14. Belisar

    Belisar Defender of Byzanz

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    Best warmongering civs: China, Persia, Ottos, Germany, Vikings, Rome and Germany.

    Every civ on the list has 1.5-2 good traits AND a good UU. The german UU comes late, but it can decide the game. Just have a look at ST2. We decided to go peacefully, but if you want to test the amazing power of the Panzers, just download the 1290AD save-file and try for yourself. :D
     
  15. MadScot

    MadScot Brandy's back!

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    You may know this, but for the benefit of people who are new to this...

    Militaristic means more unit promotions (better chance to promote after winning a battle).

    Therefore you get more elite units, all other things being equal.

    You need victorious elites to have a chance of a great leader.

    Therefore a militaristic civ will have more chances for a GL.

    But the chance to obtain a Great Leader for any given elite combat is the same for all civs, regardless of trait

    Too many people think the chance is higher for militaristic to allow that to slip by without comment.
     
  16. kb2tvl

    kb2tvl King

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    On the larger maps, I perfer a cheap UU defensive unit or a UU that is horse based.

    So the civs would be Iroquois, China, Ottomans, Russia, Arabia,Japan(unit is multi move),Greece(cheap defensive unit). I think I covered them all.

    I find rel/mil one of the hardest to get going. Their workers are slow and they only get barracks/harbors/temples for cheap and you don't need those during early expansion.

    I do really like the Iroquois. Expaninistic allows for a fast start while getting the basic culture from religious and being able to switch gov't on a moments notice. The expansionistic part allows for a more complete map which you can trade for techs and cash or just probing your enemies back side. Their UU can be built without much research and when you enter the middle ages, you do not have to research 3 techs to obtain your UU. This is probably best on harder level play.

    I do like egypt. The chariots are super nice and you can produce them for a long long time.

    I like greece because you get a pikeman without iron and you can focus on getting horses. Horse + hops can make for an excellent early middle age expansion combination. Also, libraries and a free tech are super nice as well.

    One civ I did not mention are the Germans. They start out with bronze and warrior code. This can be a very powerful combination if you are next to another civ and you can produce 4 archers and really put a hurting to that ai by taking out their capitol.
     
  17. Roxtar

    Roxtar Leader of the Musicians

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    Until my current game, I've played builder-style as America, winning by diplo or space. Now I'm trying the warmongering route. I'm playing as Rome, at Warlord (as always), on the Roman Empire map (either standard or large, I think). I find the Mil trait to be Rome's strength (cheap barracks, more frequent promotions). But its weakness--it's not Rel like the Aztecs & Japanese are. (I even have the 'tecs as one of my rivals!) So often, when I save a game & then change gov't, the DA says "We'll settle down in 4 (or 5, or even 7) turns," & I think, I can't wait that long! so I restore the game, stay in Despotism, & think, Oh well, at least under Desp I can pop-rush temples in those 99%-corrupt cities! (BTW, has anyone here ever stayed in Desp throughout a game & won?) I'm now in the low BC's & have eliminated Egypt & Persia; 5 rivals to go. I figure if I keep building my military like crazy, I can at least deter attack from THEM till I feel ready to fight 'em.
     
  18. WickedSmurf

    WickedSmurf pr0

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    I myself have found I cannot play warmongering not being a religious civ... The zero turns anarchy is just crucial later in the game when I sometimes am at peace for just some turns and then go to war again. Rel also helps me build up a strong culture from the very beginning thus minimizing the risk of having one of those horrific culture flips. And since I also am very fond of speeded workers, Ind. is the other trait I am wanting. So that leaves me very short of choices, doesn't it? =)

    Besides, if find the mil trait not that crucial. Sure, units gets promoted more often, but since I fight so many battles I get my fair share of leaders anyway. Exp is only useful in the early game and becomes obsolete. It is not a trait you benefit from during the entire game. At least not directly, but sure, the effects of finding techs early lives on throughout the game but there is not direct effect from the trait once the map is revealed.

    So there, just my final thoughts. Thanks all for your replies!

    PS and OT: I got to build the Iron Works in my last game. =) Woohoo. 3rd time I think...
     
  19. Suleiman Pasha

    Suleiman Pasha Warlord

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    Im not an awesome player but I usually pick a civ with one religious as one if its traits, just so to avoid the anarchy.
     
  20. rainmaker

    rainmaker Warlord

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    I have not played as a civ with an early UU due to triggering the Golden Age too early. I have liked expansion because of the early start on advences.

    Will an early GA be much of a benefit in getting a kick start? I'm thinking of trying Egypt too try it out.

    rainmaker
     

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