I do sorta see your point, tommy... for someone who isn't used to CB rush, I wouldn't recommend trying a Hwacha rush. My comments weren't intended to encourage someone to try that first. But I had already won with Korea using a tried and true technique and I wanted to challenge myself to try something new. So. It's more me just thinking aloud as I try it myself. Learning as I go, reporting back my findings. For me, it does work, and I really find it fun to take cities with promoted Hwacha. It's like a knife through butter. I might also see if a coastal start makes it worthwhile to build turtle ships. A few of those could speed up my finish time. I don't know. I'm enjoying finding out. Other notes: the tech boost from finishing a library in the capital seems to be about 45 beakers. NC about 150. It seems to really vary. I'm wondering if it actually is based on your current tech output. In which case it would make sense to get TR up first and finish your capital's library last. The NC boost shaved about 8 turns off metalworking for me. With liberty bulbed scientist you can in fact get t90 Hwacha. Which can take cities even unpromoted. So Liberty still > Honor even for Hwacha rush, maybe. I haven't decided whether it's better to start taking cities on t90 with unpromoted siege or t110 with promoted siege.... After I wrap up my current Honor game I'll try another liberty run.