[NFP] Was Frontier Pack a success for you?

[TreVor_ish]

You can please some of the people, some of the time!!

Being able to change those is the only reason I am still somewhat hopeful will make me play the game after next patch (getting to point of not caring rapidly).
However the amount of bugs, and months of wait to get them fixed. Unacceptable for that price. Already mentioned, but I practically paid them to break the game.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

I am pleased with the result. While the added bugs and reused character animations are disappointing, the new games modes are pretty fun (apocalypse mode is a bit of a dud) and the civs are solid. One area where I believe the NFP absolutely crushed it was in the audio department. For a series already packed with amazing music, NFP offered truly excellent pieces.

 

[Alaindor]

I voted above average, but like many others here, I would have preferred better integration and more balance in the game modes: some feel OP especially as the AI is incapable of using them effectively.

Frankly, although I appreciate the flexibility of optional game modes, I myself would've preferred them to be bundled in a unique expansion (probably nerfed a bit), give more interactions between these mechanics and most importantly make sure the AI can use them effectively. Right now, given all possible combinations of modes, it is near impossible to compare our gameplays between fellow players, as heroes or monopolies (in their current state) for instance are game changing and increase luck as part of a winning "strategy".

But still overall liking the game, being a slow pacer and progressing so slowly...

 

[kaspergm]

You can please some of the people, some of the time!!

Yeah, I noticed that as well and laughed.

To elaborate a bit on my statement, though, having all my cities stuck with 2 housing and severe growth limitation and no help towards getting builders to start getting those farms up, and then putting loads of production into those builders to get farms and plantations instead of using them to improve strategics and things that help my production is just not great fun for me. Oh yeah, and then a unique Campus that's generally worse than a normal Campus in early game ... how fun.

 

[Gedemo]

I preferred Gathering Storm, but compared to Rise and Fall, I don't find New Frontier to be particularly better or worse.

 

[AntSou]

Yeah, I noticed that as well and laughed.

To elaborate a bit on my statement, though, having all my cities stuck with 2 housing and severe growth limitation and no help towards getting builders to start getting those farms up, and then putting loads of production into those builders to get farms and plantations instead of using them to improve strategics and things that help my production is just not great fun for me. Oh yeah, and then a unique Campus that's generally worse than a normal Campus in early game ... how fun.

I actually just posted about the Maya in another thread. Here's some suggestions that could work (not all at once as that would make them too strong):

- Maya can move capital, similar to Phoenicia, but only within the same continent (makes it easier to settle without losing turns in the early game);

- Mayan cities get +1 Housing and +1 Amenity for each adjacent luxury (it would alleviate the early game cap to pop growth);

- Maya gets Tier 1 starting bias to Plantations and the the ability to chop Rainforests at mining. (this would make them very strong without needing to change how the Laboratory works).

 

[Zegangani]

The Balance improvements, Bug Fixes, New Features and Modes in the Free Updates are the things I enjoyed the most with NFP (Although they don't belong to NFP, we wouldn't have got them without it).
The Civs/Leaders are quite Nice, especially the Concepts of their Abilities, but the implementation of some just make them too OP compared to Previous Civs/Leaders. Overall, they are fine IMO (just need a little balance here and there and everything will be great, nothing that can't be achieved via Modding). I just hope the Update of the 2/3 older Civs/Leaders don't make them similarly OP, otherwise, ALL our Games gonna be won before the Late-Game.
The Game Modes, like someone said here, sound good on Paper, but the implementation of them wasn't that very promising.
Secret Societies was so anticipated from the Fans, but at the end we got all our hopes crushed. We expected anything, but not what we finally got. I like the Concept, but I would have enjoyed it if it wasn't full of Fantasy stuff. Something like Assassins instead of Vampires, and Alchemist that can place a random resource on a Tile rather than Ley Lines. Something more believable would have been enough for me to enjoy it. And same thing for Heros Mode (Generals and Admirals would have been great as Heros IMHO).
Anyway, I think there are many Players who love those Modes, so each his/her.
The other Modes (except Apocalypse) are pretty good, they just need some Bug Fixes (Monopolies, Barbarians) and AI to handle them well (Dramatic Ages is such a good Mode, but as long as AI suffers from it, I can't play with it).

The Good thing about The Modes, is the ability to turn them on and off individually. I would love to see previous Mechanisms/Systems managable like that (World Congress, Loyalty, Individual Disasters...etc).

I'm not whining about all the Bugs introduced with NFP, because that was unavoidable given the Time Frame of the Releases of the Packs and Updates. And I think we will get most of them sooner or later fixed anyway.

If NFP was mostly made to gather some cash for future Civ VI content, then I think we will see more Bug Fixes, Balances, AI and UI improvements with a potential Final Frontier, or ideally, some Free Updates.

Looking forward to the Next Pack and the Mode that it brings (Colonisation? Ideologies? Dynamic CSs? or some alternate Future Mode (Zombies/Aliens - I would have prefered this (Sci-fi) over Fantasy Stuff)?)

 

[konokoni]

I voted "Above Average," since I think the modes are mostly fun additions to the game (don't care for Dramatic Ages). I can take or leave the new Civs; the game had a ton even before the Frontier Pass and I don't think the game's flaws stem from a lack of Civ options. Byzantium is fun, but the rest didn't catch my eye.

I think that within the spectrum of possibilities (from no new content to a Pass to a full Expansion), taking the Pass approach turned out OK in the end. Unfortunately, what Civ VI REALLY needs is not within that spectrum: a comprehensive AI / balance / UI patch (or series of patches) that make playing the game as-is a more enjoyable experience. SMAX had a better build queue than Civ VI does; it also had better reporting so you could easily manage your empire after it grew beyond ~6 cities. The state of the AI is sad, even if you don't expect human-level foresight. You can give it resource bonuses, but all that does is ensure that you can't get wonders and delay the inevitable moment when you blow past the AI & have a certain win you have to play out. There have been incremental improvements, but they've been primarily focused on tactical concerns (e.g. AI uses airplanes better) and less on long-term execution (e.g. AI stops placing districts where they only get +1 adjacency when there is a better option within the three tile city radius).

To really make Civ VI into the best version of itself, it needs to be challenging enough that you have to actually learn and use its multiple interconnected mechanics / systems, as well as "easy" to play with good UI and reports so you can make the correct decisions. However, Firaxis can't put out a "Functionality Expansion" and charge $20 for it; as far as the player base is concerned, these are things that should've been in the game in the first place. I don't think most players would tolerate being charged for this. Without being able to demonstrate a revenue stream from the activity, I don't think it's realistic to expect Firaxis to dedicate the resources that these improvements would need (even if it's the "right" thing to do). Hence, we get the Frontier Pass: cool new content to generate sales, with balance, AI and UI crammed in at the edges. I wish it were different but I don't see how it can be, short of a Patreon page for Civ or other alternate means of funding.

If Firaxis were to do another Pack for Civ VI, I would consider buying it, but not for the content. The game is stuffed to the gills already. I would buy it in the hopes that they continue to spend time improving what's already in-place. The extra content would be gravy to me.

 

[Zaarin]

with my most anticipated civs (the Maya) in one of the worst implementations

Funny enough, the Maya and Vietnam are the only two NFP civs I've actually liked.

Music of these civs are superb as usual.

The only area where NFP has not been a disappointment.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Civs were good, and some of the balance changes are good. The extra game modes are basically fluff, one off things, where I play a few times and forget. They are a novelty but for the most part are rather shallow and falls under "shiny things". Though Monoplies is kinda neat-- just needs to fix the balance a bit there.

The preserve district is probably the only real game changer here.

Overall, I would say below average. Suggest buying it only if you really liked the game up to GS and want to support the game even further. And even considering that, I bought it on discount-- not worth $40.

I think my opinion will improve if they dedicate more effort into balancing most of this stuff (which is nonexistent in NFP). However, given the huge range of stuff needed for balance, that's gonna be hard. We'd probably need a new season pass; ofc if they just move on to 7, then meh.

You can please some of the people, some of the time!!

Maya is extremely map dependent and a lot of time most of their kit is pretty much either "yes you have it", or "no you don't." The observatory is also terrible, but that's more because it gets compared to the only other unique campus in the game which makes others look bad.

But their UU/home combat abilities are great, so they're better off played aggressively if you want consistency. (- yields don't matter if you capture lots of cities) That does make it one-dimensional for some

 

[aieeegrunt]

Some interesting concepts but the inplementation was bad and there was clearly zero QA

 

[Xandinho]

New civilizations and leaders 9/10

I'm quite satisfied with all the civs included in NFP so far, and most of them have a very interesting and unique gameplay, especially Gaul, Vietnam, Babylon and Maya. GC and Byzantines don't make my playstyle, but they can be very interesting for those who like to play domination.

New things (city-states, districts, great people, wonders, disasters...) 7/10

I've enjoyed most of the new things included in the game, especially the new city-states in which they add a lot of diversity in the game, in addition to allowing each match to be very different from the other. The new great people are also very nice. The new districts are nice (although I was hoping for a castle district that didn't happen), the diplomatic district could be more impactful in the game. The new wonders are cool, except the fantasy ones included in the first DLC, since I'm not a big fan of fantasy elements - although this is easily resolved with the possibility of excluding NW from the game. Forest fire is welcome. I think there are still some abstentions in units that they could fill, like Trebuchet that is not in the game.

Game Modes 5/10

Well, because I'm not a fan of fantasy elements, I already start by discarding the Apocalypse, Secret societies and Heroes modes. Dramatic ages and Shuffled tech/civic tree are cool, but I don't see myself playing with them often. What remains is the Industry/Corporation and Barbarians modes, which are the ones I liked the most because they are historical. They certainly need some balances, like the exaggerated tourism modifier in the Industry/Corporation mode, and also to make AI capable of creating corporations.

Balancing and Corrections 6/10

I think they've done a reasonable job here, especially in changes to governments and policy cards. I really loved the changes in the policy cards of generation of great people, now they're viable to adopt. The change in monarchy is also very welcome, in addition to being an incentive to build tier 3 walls. The changes in Amenities and Entertainment district were also quite satisfactory, in addition to other changes here and there that I can't remember right now. Obviously they could be better, there are still many loose ends that need to be tied and some features that do not interact with each other. The end game is still quite boring.

Overall: 6.75. I can say that NFP has been an above average experience for me so far. There are certainly some things that could have been better, but I'm happy especially because the civilizations and leaders have been so pleasing to me. I couldn't imagine Civilization without Mayans, Ethiopia, Byzantines...

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

I still don't see the issue with re-using idle animations. The only one that I found off-putting was Bolivar's laugh.
In the roughly two years I've been here I've experienced a painfully long hiatus of any kind of interaction between Firaxis and the player base, and the sudden shift brought by NFP of having video updates every month. Plus @Andrew Johnson [FXS] has posted regularly since the start of NFP.

It's a pleasure to interact with you all as well. In talking to my friends who work on other games, I do really appreciate the Civ fans. For a few gripes and grumbles, people are generally pretty supportive and positive. I do have to note that my interaction here has to be strictly limited to history / culture discussions, as I it's not my role to be "officially" confirming or releasing any information, nor can or would I talk about the internal workings of Firaxis; also, while I'm on the team, I'm not a designer and don't do anything related to balance or gameplay or code (though clearly I play the game quite a bit). I suppose I should say, too, that a lot of my academic focus is on present-day Southeast Asian politics, which is a giant mess right now, I'm not going to post here on that, either, for obvious reasons of irrelevancy to Civ and to avoid offending people with different opinions. I have a Twitter and academic books and articles on those fronts [@manusyadrew for the former, and just search Andrew Alan Johnson for the latter - most of my work is on Academia.edu or is available on request].

 

[universecreep]

The new Civs were a welcome addition. I could take or leave the game modes. The AI doesn't know how to use them so they're kinda pointless in a way.

 

[Linklite]

Honestly, I voted below average.

The positives:

1. The different styles of civs. One of my criticisms of previous civs is that they're largely interchangeable. The differences were largely a few pluses to certain backend numbers are swapped around. The NFP civs fundamentally change how you play - Babylon has you really chasing Eurekas, Byzantium has you converting cities before conquering them, and so forth. They change the game in a way that only a few civs did before NFP, which is a good thing.
2. I liked the modality of the game modes, that I can pick and choose how my game will be. Bundled in this point are the various pickers, a big boon.
3. I liked the paced content, it game time for each bit to sink in.

The negatives:

1. The fact that the game modes aren't catered for at all by civs beyond Georgia. I know this is in contradiction to one of the positives, but the lack of integration hurts the feelings. One possibility is to give each civ bonuses and maluses for the game modes. I know it would be a lot more work, but it would keep the modality while making them feel more...together.
2. On a related note, M&Cs really feels like it should have been an integral part of the game (with balance fixes, of course) rather than a game mode.
3. I really feel that they shouldn't have been called "Game Modes". Perhaps "Game Options" or something, since they only really alter a small part of the game. I felt mislead by this when it formed part of my decision to buy NFP and then I found that they weren't what the name implied.

I really didn't mind some of the negatives others mentioned like recycled leader animations, but I guess I never really noticed. Personally, I'd like an actual Expansion Pack next rather than a Season Pass, I think that compromises due to having to adapt everything to not assume that an player would have a given pack were too much. I'm not lamenting my money, but given that I paid less for the base game than NFP, and paid less for both XPs together, it stings a little.

 

[KayAU]

Maya is extremely map dependent and a lot of time most of their kit is pretty much either "yes you have it", or "no you don't." The observatory is also terrible, but that's more because it gets compared to the only other unique campus in the game which makes others look bad.

Perhaps I just haven't played enough, but I am surprised people think the Observatory is weak. For starters, it's a half-price Campus. It doesn't compete for mountain adjacencies, instead requiring plantations or ley lines to really get high numbers. Still, my impression is that my average adjacency for these tend to be around 4. It does require a bit more setup to get there, though, and quite a few builder charges. I'm not saying it's more powerful than the Seowon, but I do enjoy it more. Plantation resources are not that uncommon, and do tend to come in clusters. I also like that you get minor adjacency from farms, which synergizes well with the other Mayan abilities and drawbacks. I also find that the Maya are an excellent fit for the Hermetic Order, both due to those ley line adjacencies, and for the university replacement.

The Maya are certainly not the most powerful civ, but they do play a bit differently, and I like their particular set of strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Disgustipated]

I find it difficult to get high adjacency for Observatories. Half price is the biggest draw. Maya are an OK civ for me. And often requires rerolls since if you start on the coast, it's difficult to form a "circle".

As for my vote, Above average for me. I would certainly purchase similar content in the future. But it depends on if I like the game. I didn't buy all the content for Civ5 because I couldn't really get into that game very much. Civ6 was always a favorite of mine despite some AI flaws. I can only hope Civ7 draws on Civ6's strengths. As I mentioned in the OP, the weaknesses of this pack for me is the AI's ability to use these features. I wasn't impressed with the first content of things like vampires, but I have liked subsequent content.

My favorite civs are probably Gaul and Vietnam.

 

[Zaarin]

I find it difficult to get high adjacency for Observatories.

I imagine it depends a lot on the map. I haven't played any of the NFP civs more than once, but in my Maya game I didn't have a single Observatory with less than a +4 bonus and had some as high as +8.

 

[Archon_Wing]

It doesn't compete for mountain adjacencies, instead requiring plantations or ley lines to really get high numbers. Still, my impression is that my average adjacency for these tend to be around 4.

I mean you can go religion and place holy sites but they have no bonuses to it so the lack of competition for the two districts isn't very good. The good thing about campuses early on is you instantly get the adjacency bonus without having to do any setup. Most other districts don't either. Requiring improvements to make your district useful at all is just backwards and I would say easily negates the reduced cost. Comparing it to the Seowon is kinda unfair, but that's the only frame of reference we have.

Furthermore, you have little control over where plantations go. You can look at Vietnam, a civ with very strict district placement requirements, but they can also plant trees earlier so it's not really a long term problem.

Their archers are really good, and I think people that aren't enjoying Maya would probably play a better game that way though. (And yes, getting Holy Sites with river goddess, but that wouldn't really make good use out of mountains either)

 

[Unmitigated Gaul]

I had become pretty bored of the game and with a year full of time at home the content in this pack revitalized my interest in the game. I think they were wise to release when and how they did, instead of sitting on content until maybe now?

Generally speaking I think the new civs are pretty strong(maybe a little too strong) and mostly have been fun to play. The modes have been hit or miss for me, but they’re also modes. I think dramatic ages is my favorite