was Jesus really born on December 25?

[Inhalaattori]

This question is very easy. The answer is NO!

25.12 was a paganic fest which was changed after christianity. (25.12 is winter solstice, which was big feast day for most pagan religions.) I believe christmas has also some links to Mithra and Sol invictus.

 

[Emp.Napoleon]

I always heard it was really in July.

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

You know, the topic of Christ's birth was mentioned in an episode of a tv sci-fi series long since cancelled. IIRC, the name of the series was Space: Above and Beyond. They said something about Christ having been born four years prior to what is reported and at a somewhat different time of year, and based this on determining dates by recorded positions of stars.

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Azadre
Romans corrupted the christian religion...

or did the christian corrupt the Roman religion?

 

[Mescalhead]

Originally posted by Xen



or did the christian corrupt the Roman religion?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Packer-Backer]

Rome corrupted Christianity, post-"Roman" Rome was the home of the Catholic Church was has corrupted the image of a Christian. What exactly has Christianity taken away from Greco-Roman polytheism, Xen?

Anyway Inhalaattori is right, the Catholic church chose a pagan holiday to "link" this meant to be holy holiday to something, to put it nicely, less than holy. It was probably the spring time, around May, when Jesus was born. After all the shepards were out, how many sheep wander around during December?

 

[Evie]

Aside from freedom of being followed once Christianism became the official religion, you mean?

 

[Xen]

Originally posted by Packer-Backer
Rome corrupted Christianity, post-"Roman" Rome was the home of the Catholic Church was has corrupted the image of a Christian. What exactly has Christianity taken away from Greco-Roman polytheism, Xen?]

what has it taken from us? it has forced away in the divine truths to aless the noblke following based on greed, and inequality- thats what it has taken not justfrom us, but from the world.

Originally posted by Packer-Backer

Anyway Inhalaattori is right, the Catholic church chose a pagan holiday to "link" this meant to be holy holiday to something, to put it nicely, less than holy. It was probably the spring time, around May, when Jesus was born. After all the shepards were out, how many sheep wander around during December?

less the holy to you, but for me, it is your holiday that is "less then holy"

 

[Packer-Backer]

I was using "less than holy" as a nicer word than evil. Also Xen what you mention in your first response was done by the Catholic church, the corrupted image of the Christian church. Catholicalism has stripped away many freedoms of many people, mostly individual and economic, having to pay the church!

But to be off topic, how did you convert to Greco-Roman polytheism in the first place?

 

[Evie]

Because anything you don't believe in is "evil" of course, so you are being "nice" by calling it "less than holy" instead.

I fail to see how Christianism as you represent it is better than the corrupt Catholicism you just denounced.

 

[Plexus]

Not likely, something like a .2739% chance.

 

[Packer-Backer]

Every form of Christianity has had it's dark side besides Evangelicalism, for it is the only form of Christianity which has not had a country to rule. Christianity is not the kind of religion for big churches, it is meant to be a one-on-one ministry and not large kingdoms. Catholicalism is way too wordly, and all of the astrousities (spelling? not a native speaker) the Catholic church has commited does not add up considering what it is supposedly based on. But reformist religions like Protestantism and Lutherism have not commited much less wrong, although being too wordly and corrupted is blatantly punished. Compare things like the Inquisition to organizations like the Salvation Army.

But to be on topic: No, Jesus was born in the spring, obviously!

 

[Zoke0]

Originally posted by Packer-Backer
I was using "less than holy" as a nicer word than evil. Also Xen what you mention in your first response was done by the Catholic church, the corrupted image of the Christian church. Catholicalism has stripped away many freedoms of many people, mostly individual and economic, having to pay the church!

But to be off topic, how did you convert to Greco-Roman polytheism in the first place?

Do I hear an Amen?
AMEN!!

Alos let's not forget the impact of the southern baptistsand those southern religion maniacs. With all there fundelmentalism and fanactism, made Christianity and religion a bad word.

BTW, maybe Santa was born on December 25!!

 

[Pariah]

Originally posted by ShiplordAtvar
You know, the topic of Christ's birth was mentioned in an episode of a tv sci-fi series long since cancelled. IIRC, the name of the series was Space: Above and Beyond. They said something about Christ having been born four years prior to what is reported and at a somewhat different time of year, and based this on determining dates by recorded positions of stars.

That theory is based on various astronomers' wish to explain the Star of Bethlehem as a prominent conjeunction of Mars, Jupiter & Saturn. But it could have been almost anything - a nova, a very long-period comet, a rogue planet (?!) or an alien spacecraft, as in Chris DeBurgh's song "A Spaceman Came Travelling"...

Back to a point Enemy Ace raised about Jesus' birth not being in the Year 0: he's quite right, since there was no such year! The Romans and early Christian church didn't use zero as a number. It was the Arabs, centuries later, who devised the concept of a null quantity in mathematics - I think. And they, of course, gave us our modern numeral system.

All I can really say is, the modern Christmas is fun! So who cares about the exact original date?

 

[Zoke0]

Time is probably the most abetrary unti in existence (followed by money). It all depends upon when yuo start your common era. For example the Greek common era was around 683 BC (that year maybe off, but it is the 1st olympics). Months of the year are equally insane. The calendar added two months (August and July) for the sake of Julius and Augustus Cearser. So, whether Christ's birth was in Winter,spring,summer or fall is a different question, because it relies on the the season. My opinion is that it had to of happened in spring. Whether the day, month, year is totally abertrary to me.

Sorry for the spelling, I'm having what you could call an off day.

 

[HalfBadger]

Originally posted by Zoke0
Time is probably the most abetrary unti in existence (followed by money). It all depends upon when yuo start your common era. For example the Greek common era was around 683 BC (that year maybe off, but it is the 1st olympics). Months of the year are equally insane. The calendar added two months (August and July) for the sake of Julius and Augustus Cearser. So, whether Christ's birth was in Winter,spring,summer or fall is a different question, because it relies on the the season. My opinion is that it had to of happened in spring. Whether the day, month, year is totally abertrary to me.

Sorry for the spelling, I'm having what you could call an off day.

Exactly Units measuring time have change often, April fool's is based on an old calender where ppl celebrated April 1st as the beginning of the year and as mentioned July and August were simply added.

Thats just from our current calender, many other cultures/civilizations used different calenders.

Especially with our calender's 'leap year' things can get real messy, since there are actually 365 and 1/4 days in the year.

If Doctors can't properly estimate the due date of a baby, then I doubt Jesus's birth is specifically on that date.

I like the quote about Jesus dieing on different days, for some reason Easter is always on a Sunday.

haven't historians be able to pin point it better, by correlating it to the 'tax season', which was the reason for the trek to Bethlehem. I guess the Sheep/lamb theory is the most valid, unless the bible had a misquote and there were no new born sheep.

 

[Amenhotep7]

Originally posted by Azadre
Romans corrupted the christian religion...

Hey man, I take offense to that! I'm a Roman Catholic, the first and original Christian church, and darn proud of it!:rant: Jesus was not born on Dec. 25th, but like Lefty Scaevola said, they wanted to be more pleasing to the major religions of the time.

Don't be disrespecting my church!:rant:You don't see us disrespecting your religion/church!

 

[Evie]

Except of course that to most historians there is no reason for the trip to Bethlehem in the first place because nobody has the slightest clue where Matthew got his "everyone had to go to the town of origin of their family" bit.

 

[Amenhotep7]

I think most historians agree whether Jesus was genuine or a load a hokey, he did exist.

 

[Evie]

Yes, he did. There is outside evidence on that.

However the only place where the "going to the town of origin of your family for tax season" bit is mentionned is Matthew - or whichever of these four said it. *No* other source mentions it. At best (and I don'T believe that) it's a detail that other sources forget to mention (and it seems too big for detail-dom).

At worst, it's a mistake or deliberate falsehood in the bible.