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Watch what people do, not what they say

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Hygro, Feb 18, 2019.

  1. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy You gave me my own tail?

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    White collar crime makes society sicker. It makes healthcare work worse. It makes employment work worse. It makes housing work worse. It makes transportation work worse. It makes substance abuse worse. That which is stolen is frequently not recovered. I'd double down. White collar crime kills. I'd have been ok with it if we strung up the Enron execs like we do other serious criminals. Let them try on a blue collar. And very much hoped it was scary.
     
    Cheetah and TheMeInTeam like this.
  2. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    I took a risk management class from a guy who would consult for embassies and firms operating where there are suicide bombers etc.

    Long term slow risk is generally a greater total risk than acute sudden risk. His examples involved things like the amount of domestic violence caused by displacement from hurricanes and other things not immediately counteracted by government services.
     
  3. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    What difference does it make? When you get mugged, you get mugged. When the bank defrauds you resulting in foreclosure, the goddamn police show up to turn you out of your house.
     
    Hygro likes this.
  4. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Wow, just wow, Just because I disagree with you, I must be being disingenuous.
     
  5. Manfred Belheim

    Manfred Belheim Moaner Lisa

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    Welcome to the world of Mary. "Disingenuous" is the least of it.

    Moderator Action: Let's limit the personal attacks, please. --LM
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 19, 2019
  6. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Guess who writes the laws... We wouldn't need to hire lawyers if people were treated equally under the law.
     
  7. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Just quoting this here in my post to ensure it will be available to posterity.
     
  8. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Okay... but why wont your own words suffice? You just said hiring a lawyer afforded you better treatment than somebody without a lawyer.
     
  9. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Don't think that's the same. Even if we were treated equally the law is still complicated and for many things, you'd still require a lawyer.
    I certainly wouldn't want to go through a divorce without one.
     
  10. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    His context was a few guys were guilty of pot possession and the one without a lawyer got worse treatment. If they were treated equally it shouldn't matter if they had lawyers or not.
     
  11. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    All depends if they had previous arrests/convictions. In those instances having a lawyer is helpful.
     
  12. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    If I go to jail for a year for possessing pot and you're given probation because you had a lawyer, we dont have equal treatment. Now why would judges treat the guilty so differently based on which one had a lawyer? Because its a scam, the only reason guilty people hire lawyers - aside from getting an acquittal of course - is better treatment during sentencing.
     
  13. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I consider it similar to Insurance companies. They treat all insured the same "crappy" but if you have a lawyer they're more likely to negotiate to avoid going to court.
     
  14. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Definitely, lawyers have their place - it just shouldn't be in sentencing. I cant imagine how a judge can sleep at night after sentencing one guy to 5 years for drugs while the guy with a lawyer gets off with a slap on the wrist.
     
  15. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    I used to caddy for judges all the time when I was younger. The first time I heard one say "that was a 2 bj offense" i no longer had to imagine how they slept at night after doing anything that they did. :lol: :lol:

    And consider that most of the judges were lawyers at one time.
     
  16. Berzerker

    Berzerker Deity

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    Judge Smails: You know Ty, you should play with Dr. Beeper and myself. I mean, he's been club champion for three years running and I'm no slouch myself.

    Ty Webb: Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're a tremendous slouch.

    Yup, and its harder for lawyers to become judges without the support of other lawyers. Supply and demand, limit who can play lawyer and make them worth more with judges who treat their clients better than the rest of the riff-raff.
     
  17. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    Actually most that I knew could care less about other lawyers once they became judges. Those they left behind just became part of that riff-raff.
    But based on listening to them since I was never a judge myself. Caddies were kind of like servants that they didn't think existed when they talked among themselves, or figured that since they tipped up well, we wouldn't repeat anything.
     
  18. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    That itself speaks to the underlying logic: it's more acceptable for the rich to kill people they will never have to meet, than it is for the poor to simply menace people. It's Mark Twain's "Two Terrors" in microcosm.
     
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  19. Cheetah

    Cheetah Deity

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    I really don't hope you feel like you're being ganged up on, but I also have to voice my disagreement.

    A violent criminal who robs a gas station might harm or even kill a person or two, and those who survive, and possibly people close to them, might suffer from PTSD and will have lots of stuff to deal with afterwards.

    A corrupt politician or bureaucrat, or a fraudulent businessman, might never seem violent or threatening, but does that make the harm any smaller, or less harmful? The morality of it becomes even more visible when we consider that this latter type is usually already well-off, and that the former type is usually not, and either need money for food or drugs? And don't confuse them not wielding a personal weapon with them being non-violent. For they're wielding the greatest force of violence of them all: that of the state.

    Taking into account that the money stolen by the latter type very often is taken from the public, that is the very money that should have been used to make life decent for the former type, whom then wouldn't have had to rob a gas station.

    I'd go as far as to say that all evil in the world, all crime for profit, all oppression and all injustice, has it's roots in the corruption and fraud and embezzlement of the white-collar criminals.

    PS: And for that bolded part -- if you've described two scenarios where you end up dead, and you see one as «far scarier» than the other, is that it not simply evidence of your human common sense being bad at judging risk? Within the scenarios you outlined, they're both equally harmful. I'd even argue that the one stealing your identity could cause harm even to those around you, and as such be the worse of the two...
     
  20. rah

    rah Deity Supporter

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    And if you're a victim of fraud, there is no guarantee that you'll get your money back.
     

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