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Watermills?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Drawmeus, Mar 24, 2011.

  1. Drawmeus

    Drawmeus Emperor

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    Are watermills generally worth it?

    2 food and 1 production seems fine when a city isn't doing anything really useful with its hammers... but it's 2 maintenance cost. Do people generally build them, or skip them?
     
  2. Michl2602

    Michl2602 Warlord

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    I build them whereever possible. The 1 production alone is about worth the maintainance, so you get the 2 food kind of for free and it's quickly built (120 hammers). Also some shouldn't forget, that all base production adds to the 50% the factory brings.

    PS.: Should have said: "The base production adds to the numerous additional multipliers."
     
  3. glaivemaster

    glaivemaster Prince

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    I always build them quickly (coming usually just after Library and/or market in cities that are next to rivers). Extra pop. + extra production at such a cheap price is amazingly effective (and easily pays back the maintenance)
     
  4. Guardian_PL

    Guardian_PL Emperor

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    It basically allows you to work more hammer tiles due to extra food, so definitely worth it. Sometimes Granary only is enough, but in production cities you need all the extra food you can get :)
     
  5. uRabbit

    uRabbit Chieftain

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    Depends on the city for me, but I typically build my production cities on rivers for this reason.
     
  6. snarzberry

    snarzberry Emperor

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    You can work a 3 or 4 hammer tile with the 2 food, so it works out to be 4 - 5 base hammers for 2 gold pt. It's a good deal, especially if it can be built quickly.
     
  7. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Every hammer building is now "worth it", although I wouldn't put emphasis on Watermills in early game. They are great around medieval and beyond, when their build time becomes trivial.
     
  8. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    It's nice, but you're paying 2:c5gold: per turn for that :c5production:, which is nearly a wash.

    Granary is a building worth emphasizing early. Water Mill is not, but if you can sneak it into the build order later on it's not bad.
     
  9. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Capital should build watermill lot sooner than others because he can gives you higher bonuses from multipliers. Need a river tho.

    For other cities i agree.
     
  10. Raethwyn

    Raethwyn Warlord

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    I will usually build a watermill in my Cap asap. Production focused cities also get them. Other cities will eventually get them once Markets are built. As always I make sure I can afford the maintenance but the extra production tile I can work because of that 2 food is definitely worth it. By the time I build watermills I usually have my workshops built so all that production gets multiplied. With so much production you can do whatever you want. I love Tabernak's Optimal Production Strategy and anything that gives 2 or more food goes perfectly with it.
     
  11. joncnunn

    joncnunn Senior Java Wizard Moderator

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    I would vote an emphatic yes. Once I have the tech for it, it's often the next build in all my cities. (And the first for all cities founded after I have that tech)

    Early on, what's most significant is that production (hammers scarce in new cities post patch); later on the increased food. (Stack with Granary, then Aqueduct, and later Hospital)

     
  12. Smote

    Smote Emperor

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    I'm a big fan of water mills. They are frequently one of the first things I build. I frequently beeline The Wheel for water mills faster.
     
  13. duxup

    duxup Prince

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    That is how I look at it too. I always figured the 2:c5gold: meant it was ok for a production city but not much of a focus for other cities.
     
  14. snarzberry

    snarzberry Emperor

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    But imagine if it's in your production city, which is linked to your capital by railroad, has the Ironworks and a workshop where you use the 2:c5food: to work a 4:c5production: mine to help build a building. How many :c5production: are you getting for that 2:c5gold: ?
     
  15. mystiqblackcat

    mystiqblackcat Chieftain

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    I think it is this:

    1:c5production: + 4:c5production: is 5:c5production: x 1.15 (workshop bonus) = 5.75:c5production:

    Then 5.75:c5production: x rail bonus (50% right?) = 8.62:c5production: for 2:c5gold:

    Now someone pipe up and tell me what the bonuses should really be so I can edit this and fix it.:lol:

    *edit* Bleh, already found a problem. Maintence costs for workshop and rail connection also need to be figured in unless of course you are planning on always having workshops and rail connections and the only question is to Watermill or not to Watermill.
     
  16. lilnev

    lilnev King

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    Often yes. Unless I've got surplus food from Maritimes. Sometimes other things are higher priorities, and the payback time is pretty long. Post-Civil Service (and by the time you get the dang thing built, it's probably post-CS), you're talking about mining one riverside hill rather than farming it e.g. +1 hammer from the tile before Chemistry, +2 after. Plus the base hammer from the mill itself, so it's 2 or 3 pre-multiplier hammers, not 5.
     
  17. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Think of it this way: to pay for the water mill, you need to use one trading post where you would otherwise not. Or in worst case, 2 trading posts. So compare this (post civil service, pre-econ, pre-chemistry):

    1 riverside hill with a mine, 1 riverside grassland with a farm: total 2 pop, 4 food, 3 prod, 2 coin
    watermill, 1 riverside hill TP, 1 riverside grass TP: total 2 pop, 4 food, 3 prod, 4 coin, 2 maint

    Worst case it breaks even. But you get flexibility if you want to emphasize growth, or prod, or whatever.

    It's not the first thing I build but I will definitely plan to build it in every city that can. It becomes even more valuable once you have some more multipliers in place.
     
  18. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak Cut your lousy hairs!

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    Sooner the better for all buildings providing extra hammers. Especially in capital. For stables, i found useless to build them in cities with only 1 cow,sheep or horse tile.
     
  19. trueblue

    trueblue Prince

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    this.


    thats ofcourse if you want to win at a decent level of the game.
     
  20. Muskie

    Muskie Warlord

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    I like them a lot, but I seem to be playing a lot of random island maps lately so rivers are at a premium. I think rivers are a natural spot to put a city and the Water wheel is a bonus, the hydro plant can be quite awesome too.
     

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