Ways into production

[cabert]

I was asked to write something about production, but I'm not really convinced there is really a need.

Where does production come from?
4 sources :

1. hammers from worked tiles
2. hammers from specialists (settled Great engineers, great prophets, great scientists, or engineers, priests and citizens)
3. conversion from population to hammers via slavery
4. conversion from gold to hammers via universal suffrage

There is a 5th source in BtS, for religious buildings from the "world religion".

Voice of Unreason already has written articles about 1 and 3. Obsolete has demonstrated 2. Many SGs (and Sisiutil in a few ALCs, I clearly remember Mansa Musa's) have demonstrated how to run the number 4.
So I have the feeling this issue is mostly covered.

Or is there a need for a reference of the bonus you can get and how to use them right?
I'm not looking for work, since I have more than I can do, but if a real need exists, I'll comply.

Same for gold and science. IMHO, these issues are largely covered by numerous articles and examples, but if some kind of reference is needed I'll try to comply.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

Maybe just a sumary of the conversion rate for population/hammers and gold/hammers in slavery/universal suffrage.

Or you could write about pants next

 

[UncleJJ]

add 6. Drafting,

converts pop (equivalent to food) into hammers although restricted to certain troop types.

 

[oyzar]

slaving and drafting is kinda the same.

What is needed is a comparison between the different. When is it better to use one or another.

 

[mystyfly]

Maybe you also want to add chopping?

 

[Diamondeye]

Maybe you also want to add chopping?

Touché.

 

[ParadigmShifter]

I still think "Ways into pants" should be next. Cabert is a Frenchman after all.

 

[OTAKUjbski]

I think most people want this just to see all the information in one tidy location. A link to all the posts you refer to in the OP will probably suffice.

However, I do a lot of lurking, and the #1 question about production seems to revolve not so much around how but where -- especially as it relates to when.

VoiceOfUnreason's Vocum Sineratio is a great article on production, but it has two weak points:

• It predates BtS.
• It assumes a late-game population 20 "megacity".

Especially in BtS with the introduction of Levees, Corporations and the SP+CS synergy, ANY city can be made into a production powerhouse.

I think anybody asking about production is largely asking the question "How do I build a great production city pre-Renaissance/Industrial Era?"

So, if you decide to put something together, I think it should focus on nothing greater than a population 13 city with only Caste System, Bureaucracy, Machinery and Guilds to stand on -- possibly even showing how each new tech 'evolves' the production city.

EDIT: Observe a post from early this morning I just stumbled upon:

Funny thing about workshops. Without SP, theyre too weak. With SP, they are too strong. What to do?

People just don't know how to put the pieces together in the early game (in this case WS+CS+Guilds), ya know?


-- my 2

 

[xanadux]

I can think of a few ways to get high production before levees.

There is the basic early game production city ... Lots of hills, lots of food. This takes little more than finding the right spot and growing the city.

There is the wonderspam with generating and settling engineers, prophets, and scientists.

High food cities can whip, but you do have to run slavery and I don't think a whipping city can outproduce the other methods, but it can be pretty impressive with Globe. But globe in a high food very low production city takes a while, the quickest way (without a lot of forest nearby) being to have a forge and OR and whip for max overflow and put the overflow into Globe.

Probably the most universally useful method would be to beeline chemistry relatively early. With a good economy, you can almost always beeline chemistry before teching paper and philosophy and still be first to liberalism at monarch level, and usually even on emperor (BTS). Run caste system, and you can make 1 food/4 hammer grassland workshops. With farms and workshops, and 1 good food resource, say a riverside corn, a size 13 city with 12 grassland tiles can run 8 workshops and generate 33 base hammers which is pretty good for still being 4 techs before finishing liberalism first. I would estimate on epic/monarch or emperor, you can get such a city somewhere between 500-1000AD. A real option if you have lots of grassland.

 

[cabert]

Maybe you also want to add chopping?

Touché.

coulé!

There's no article yet, no brain has been harmed to write those few lines .
IF I write an article, I'll include chopping, don't worry.
Now, it seems a quick reference about production may be useful.
I'll add drafting too (IF I write something), although it's not actual production.

No answer about gold or science, so I assume those subjects are covered enough already.

 

[vale]

Add:
7. Overflow and related tricks
8. Corporations (mainly the mining one I'm thinking)
9. % bonuses from civics
10. bonuses from buildings (% and otherwise)

One nice thing about writing such an article is that you could cross-reference more in depth articles about most of these methods while still providing a well organized overview of the big picture aspect.

 

[cabert]

Add:
7. Overflow and related tricks
8. Corporations (mainly the mining one I'm thinking)
9. % bonuses from civics
10. bonuses from buildings (% and otherwise)

One nice thing about writing such an article is that you could cross-reference more in depth articles about most of these methods while still providing a well organized overview of the big picture aspect.

will do

In fact, I will probably start with only the references and put a little more valuable informations later in the article.
I still didn't update the health article with BtS facts, so it will take some time.
I'll start the referencing right now.

edit : I put up a skeleton for the production article here.

 

[MrFelony]

I think one of the things with whipping is that people are unsure of when they should whip. those little red unhappy faces are a sign, but I'm sure there are others :/.

 

[xanadux]

A trick that should not be forgotten for production:

Under Hereditary Rule, a city can whip units endlessly and never suffer from the happiness penalty. This allows a trick for a high food/no production city to build a wonder fairly quickly. You just build a military unit like an axeman (forge helps), and whip for maximum overflow, putting the overflow towards a wonder. No matter how many unhappies you have from whipping, the units take care of it.

This is a trick I most often use for one of those no production cities with a lot of water tiles. 6 or 7 whips and you have Moai statues that would have taken 200 turns to build normally. Eventually the unhappiness wears off and you have a lot of spare units to use.

 

[Elandal]

Just remember that you do pay military upkeep under HR as well, and at some later day those units will need to march away. So don't overdo.

 

[xanadux]

Just remember that you do pay military upkeep under HR as well, and at some later day those units will need to march away. So don't overdo.

Very true. But I especially like this for Moai statues to take a 1 or 2 hammer city and give it more respectable proeduction.

 

[DaveMcW]

A trick that should not be forgotten for production:

Under Hereditary Rule, a city can whip units endlessly and never suffer from the happiness penalty. This allows a trick for a high food/no production city to build a wonder fairly quickly. You just build a military unit like an axeman (forge helps), and whip for maximum overflow, putting the overflow towards a wonder. No matter how many unhappies you have from whipping, the units take care of it.

This is a trick I most often use for one of those no production cities with a lot of water tiles. 6 or 7 whips and you have Moai statues that would have taken 200 turns to build normally. Eventually the unhappiness wears off and you have a lot of spare units to use.

This works best if you whip Globe Theater at the end.