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We are winning, they fear us

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Victoria, Aug 3, 2017.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    So this new modifier appears to work as follows, will test further

    Once you are over 50% on the victory screen and no-one is higher than you you will accumulate -1 with each civ that has met you. New civs takev 1 turn to assess this.
    If someone surpasses you your accumulated points start decreasing 1 per turn
    This modifier appears to have a max value of -500
    This modifier applies to whichever civ is winning, not just you.

    upload_2017-8-3_21-34-7.png

    In this example on turn 121 I took my fourth capital meaning I was over 50%. As diplomacy works at the end of a turn the modifier applies the next turn.

    upload_2017-8-3_23-12-51.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    Jewelrunna, zagosya, Olleus and 17 others like this.
  2. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Chieftain

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    Thanks for the work put into this. It's helpful to see this new modifier laid bare. It is annoying, of course, that this exists at all. Civ V had something similarly visible and immersion-breaking if I recall.
     
  3. bbbt

    bbbt Chieftain

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    Hmm, I feel like the science/cultural victories go from 0 to 100 too quickly for that to have that much of an effect.

    It'll mainly impact dom and religious victories - which already have their own Diplo penalties (warmongering and stop converting my cities).
     
    KumaChan likes this.
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Culture can be a struggle, especially if peaceful. All these modifiers do is push everyone to war more, so sad they are removing choice in my view.
    It's an inelegant solution.
     
    Vandlys, WorldWarIV, KayAU and 4 others like this.
  5. Manifold

    Manifold ModderProtectionAdvocate

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    That's exactly how it must be:)
     
    Karmah likes this.
  6. Arianrhod

    Arianrhod Chieftain

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    Would it be better if the text was something like "Your dominance has caused them to grow uneasy."?

    I feel like a mechanic like this is good for the game in the long run to help prevent endgames that essentially amount to 80 turns of Press Next Turn to Win. This being the Civ 6 AI I'm not sure war really amounts to a huge difference from that, but it still creates endgames where something of note might actually happen.
     
  7. oedali

    oedali Chieftain

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    I think it's a step in the right direction but not enough to cause a tangible impact. I WANT the AI to be more competitive and dislike me if I'm close to victory ; wouldn't a human feel the same towards an AI? I don't see why some folks think this is immersion breaking - the AI can role play and be competitive at the same time with modifiers like this.

    However it won't be effective because the AI currently sucks at war, so even if they end up declaring at late game, majority of the cases it won't stop you from winning. Once they fix the combat AI though, this will work nicely and as intended
     
  8. Japper007

    Japper007 Chieftain

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    A nice change, I hope it's towards other AI as well, I hate how the AI just foolishly sits around while someone else is going for space. One of the major AI issues in civ 4 too IMHO, someone can be a few turns from a culture victory with no soldiers at all and the AI won't attack them because "muh Friendly/pleased status hur dur"

    It's too bad that it won't impact the end-game of any game that's even played slightly optimally, as by the time you get this modifier you'll be at -500 or something with everyone due to warmonger penalties anyways...
     
  9. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    I dislike it. It's fine to hate the #1, but in excess it again is bias against peaceful victories, mainly because if you're ahead in a domination victory, what they think really doesn't matter since you're going to kill them all anyways, if they're not already upset by your warmongering (which they should). Late game Diplomacy is already pretty marginal if not a waste of time at this rate beyond some stalling for safety early game.

    I understand that people want the game to be competitive, but what you're really just going to get is domination or defacto domination where you just kneecap everyone and go for the victory of your whim because moving units in the lag is too boring.
     
    Dimplz and WorldWarIV like this.
  10. bbbt

    bbbt Chieftain

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    An inelegant solution is definitely a good way to put it.

    I forgot that culture is dependent on open borders/trade routes that can be much more challenging with out friendly relations.
     
    KumaChan likes this.
  11. Heinage

    Heinage Khan

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    I know there are arguments for and against a mechanic like this. My view is that a mechanic like this explicitly reminds you that you are merely *playing a game*.
    To me, one of the goals of a game like Civilization, is to give you a sense of immersion rather than jolt you back to reality (the reality being that you are sitting at a desk clicking away, playing a video game).

    Sure there are always going to be gamey elements and I am in no way suggesting that Civilization is "realistic" , but a mechanic such as this explicitly calls out the fact that you are trying to win a game.

    At least change the wording like one poster suggested above.
     
    WorldWarIV, cooldude1128 and KayAU like this.
  12. Spudsie74

    Spudsie74 Chieftain

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    Idle wondering, but does a low score, make AI civ's become more friendly? I wonder, as the AI has a head start at higher difficulties; I wondered if that accounted for the early game friendly AI I often see. Could be me, I am usually very friendly (until I DOW some poor schweinhund).
     
  13. sonicmyst

    sonicmyst Chieftain

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    If I am a peaceful civ approaching a cultural win, i would prefer the enemy ai do more spying against me and cutting off trade routes than denouncements and war.
     
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  14. Magma_Dragoon

    Magma_Dragoon Reploid

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    -1 per turn? I'm glad they're looking at giving the AI some mechanism to "do something" when a player is getting close to winning, but this is excessive and one-dimensional.

    upload_2017-8-3_22-45-32.png
     
  15. bbbt

    bbbt Chieftain

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    Unfortunately the only way to cut off trade routes is a declaration of war. Otherwise you have no control over whether a civ can send you a trade route or not.
     
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  16. craney1987

    craney1987 Chieftain

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    I have mixed feelings on this.
    Prior to reading these posts I'd have said it should be essential part of the game. If an AI is winning, I'm going to become crazy aggressive, why shouldn't an AI do the same if I'm winning?
    However, I do accept the arguments for immersion and that it essentially breaks a peaceful game.
     
    KumaChan likes this.
  17. martyb36

    martyb36 Chieftain

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    IMO it's a great addition. Stops that forgone conclusion aspect of the game when you are science/culture leader and pretty much just clicking next turn as your tourism takes over or your spaceship parts finish.
    Always annoyed me that the AI sits idly by as you coast to victory. They should be fighting tooth and nail to stop anyone winning.

    This will upset people as it does make the domination victory quicker. But does it really matter? Turns it takes to win doesn't have to be the marker for success for me, unless it's the challenge I gave myself before I started the save.
    Biggest marker for me for a successful science/culture game is control/comfort which usually involves having a large military/good defense to prevent all my hard building going down the pan.
    If I can do that by turn 200 great if it's turn 350 great. As long as I feel I "bossed" the proceedings then I feel I've succeeded.
     
  18. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Chieftain

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    I'm okay with this feature. Although maybe they could make it a toggle option under advanced setup. I'd like to see something less immersion breaking on the description like we fear you are becoming too dominant.

    The only exception I would make possibly is for culture victory.
     
  19. PYITE

    PYITE Chieftain

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    Is this active starting at first turn?

    Is there an independent modifier for each victory condition? If I was in first in both culture and science am I getting -1 per turn from both?

    Does the leader in score also get this modifier?

    Does disabling victory conditions eliminate the coresponding negative modifier for the leader?
     
  20. Karmah

    Karmah Chieftain

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    It's both right and elegant. We are playing a board game, when someone is winning it puts pressure on the other players to deal with the guy in a completly , terminally , non friendly fashion. I think the modifier is too generous. You are #1. Peacefull , "peace n flowers on the world" victories should not exists in Civilization game. My neighbours likes me so he doesn't mind me winning ? whaaat ? This is a scenario whose possibility needs to be eliminated at all cost (unless you start implementing alliance victories ala endless space)

    If you want to win a cultural/scientific victory then deserve it , do the last mile by yourself in an at least hostile environnement if not simply an all out war.
    What do you do when you AI neighbour is on the way to win such a victory ? sing kumbaya and praise (him,her,it) for its well deserved win ? 'guess not.

    So a big thump up to the devs here.

    edit/ps : Even so I disagree with your impressions on this ,thank you for investigating and sharing your discoveries with the community @Victoria
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2017
    oedali likes this.

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