Weak UAs

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Frosty_AUT, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

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    25% cheaper. Not 25% cost
     
  2. Gali

    Gali Prince

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    America's Ua improved with the expansion, now that tile purchasing is actually at proper value. Have fun watching your city avoid that fish tile for another 100 turns or not picking up that iron or coal, etc. that popped for 80 turns. I'll pay chump change and like it. Agree they nerfed the B-17 but with bombers felling much weaker in general, the B-17s extra power can make that unit have the kick it deserves.

    How is Songhai not a great civ. They're set up for warmongering and everything ties in. Make money off barb hunting which makes honor even better. Their ability to gain double embarked defense, plus sight for embarked and amphibious means you can use land units on the water for positioning on cities. Now that cities with bad siege los can be really annoying to take thats a very useful ability. Oh and the amphinious trait ignored river penalty which will be useful a lot. Oh and Mandekalu cav can be quite nice at taking cities when starved of iron, and with extra mobility in expansion is great. Now that the calvary unit is quite good, no penalty vs mounted, no riflemen with bonus versus mounted and 4 speed, you don't have a massive dip in effectiveness. Tanks without city penalty make them even better. Mounted line is much better in G and k so the Mande is much less of a dead end. Finally you have mud pyramid mosque, less useful than vanilla but if you go holy warriors it can be nice and more culture can help gain policies which is always useful. A temple with 2 :c5culture: and 2 :c5gold: is pretty useful
     
  3. Peacemongerer

    Peacemongerer Prince

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    It's measley in the sense that a single AI coup (And they LOVE spamming those things... I've been subject to four in a single turn) can undo all that work. Gifting a Great Person should make a CS untouchable... you're forfeiting 8x turns worth of science or around 600 hammers of production so your CS ally can get taken over by a coup 3 turns later? This UA would be great on vanilla, especially with the ability to buy a lot of influence with gold to keep them allies. Given how fickle CSes are in G&K, it's greatly diminished. Besides, if you want a diplo victory, you still just buy the CSes off at the end. You'll usually be in the neighborhood of 40 influence with a few just for winning contests in culture/science/faith etc. or for connecting some obscure resource or whatever. Patronage + pledge to protect will put your influence floor at 30 and is honestly a better investment that forgoing a better UA.
     
  4. Aurelius321

    Aurelius321 Warlord

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    Peacemongerer-ererer... I have played several games of G&K now (three Prince and one King) and I only had one instance of AI's going crazy with spies. I guess it depends on which leaders are getting randomly pulled and the leaders #'s for espionage usage. I could look at that handy chart that whatshisname put out, but I'm too lazy :)
     
  5. pspboy7

    pspboy7 Prince

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    America is a good landgrabber civ if you plan to take good city spots early, but nothing else. Ottomans are decent now rather than the silly barbarian galley stealing rubbish, so I would like to try them out sometime. Weakest UA I would say is Celts because is sputters out later in the game, and that it doesn't really guarantee an early religion in theory. Not so say the the Celts aren't cool or anything, just seems like a mediocre start, weak finish type of ability.
     
  6. Thry

    Thry Warlord

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    Not true. There are no "factions" in Civ V. Nearly everyone is your friend or nearly everyone is your enemy.

    Religion doesn't divide people into "factions" ala Civ IV.
     
  7. Peacemongerer

    Peacemongerer Prince

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    I've played like 7 and in at least 4 I've recalled a time where the AI flipped a single city state multiple times. Maybe I just got stuck with extra annoying leaders.
     
  8. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

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    Spain's UA weak? I consider it one of the strongest in the game. If you play on special settings like no start bias, then that obviously changes the whole picture but that can be true for any altering of normal settings.
     
  9. nefloyd

    nefloyd King

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    Spain with any of the faith-generating NWs and the pantheon bonus can be pretty stellar. I have a Sri Pada giving +4 food, +4 happiness, +16 faith and a Mt. Fuji with +4 gold, +4 culture, +14 faith. Mt. Sinai would be the craziest with +24 faith alone from it. Really goes well with Holy Warriors or some such; just have to be willing to rush a settler across a lot of turf to snatch them up if they aren't close, or even initiate a war to cap the civ or state that has it. That's not even including the potential gold bonus.
     
  10. Polycrates

    Polycrates Emperor

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    Well of course I'd say not taking Patronage+pledge as Sweden is officially Doing It Wrong. And yes, you will also get those nice +40 influence boosts here and there anyway. But what I found with the great people is that it puts your influence into the stratosphere (starting at 120, or 135 with Papal Primacy) and those +40 boosts really help keep it up there (popping out heaps of great people of every sort also helps fulfil CS quests, which gives you a LOT more +40 boosts too).
    At that level, the AI very rarely coups you (I believe they have to be within 40 influence points of you to even try), and don't even seem to bother rigging elections etc. They go for easier targets instead, for the most part. The 90 influence really gets you into a "safe zone" where the CS really is quite a secure ally.

    I wasn't actually talking about religion. I was talking about how if you start making friends with 4 or so civs, you're going to be running afoul of people who don't like them, especially when all the denunciations start happening. And you will probably find that you'll have to denounce or join a shared war (or bribe someone to join your war) against someone to get to BFF status with more than a couple of civs.
    Whereas if you stay neutral and keep your head down, you don't get those big negative modifiers with those guys who are left out of the group hug, and you get fewer seethingly hostile enemies. But that doesn't really work for Sweden.
    So yes, you have to build a bit of a "faction" with Sweden if you want to have that many friends and hold onto them, and that's probably going to mean war with their enemies. Go find a Habsburg you can all hate on together.
     
  11. Zet

    Zet Warlord

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    Germany, Celts, Sweden, America and Egypt are weak imo.
     
  12. salty mud

    salty mud Deity

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    What do people make of Polynesia's UA? Obviously it is fairly useless on pangaea or landbased maps, but on archipelago I imagine it could give a good advantage in settling the best islands before other civs research the necessery techs.
     
  13. Wuddel

    Wuddel Warlord

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    It is as situational as every other "sea"-Civ. But the Maoi is quite unique to make up for it. On continents map you can imagine a super tall city placed on the corner of a continent with the out rim tiles for Maoi -> mad culture production.
     
  14. Bad Wolf

    Bad Wolf King

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    It never really occurred to me how terrible America's UA is, especially when held up against some of the better ones (that is to say virtually all of them). I mean... +1 extra sight, and a tile purchase discount? Really?
     
  15. Khadroth

    Khadroth Chieftain

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    That's because the AI gets a hard on for a singular city state like that. I had a situation like this with Germany in my Sweden game, which I knew I wouldn't be finishing so I purposely played it out to see what happened. Through my own coups and rediculous sums of money, I flipped it back from Germany for 20 consecutive turns. And he flipped it right back with no sign of stopping, so I gave up.

    As I see it you have 2 options when the AI goes coup-crazy. 1.) Avoid that city state. Let the AI all fight over that one while you ally the other 19. 2.) If you realize only 1 AI opponent is fighting for it, coup it, and DoW his ass. You can't coup a CS you're at war with which seals him out of relations with them for the time being, unless someone else coups it from you, but then you didn't fit the parameters for this option anyways.

    Sweden's UA works fine, and is borderline overpowered. Few other Civs can have half the CS's allied by the renaissance with little to no effort.
     
  16. Wuddel

    Wuddel Warlord

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    To make up for the Insanity the Minuteman are.
     
  17. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Emperor

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    Until the +1 sight saves your butt, which can happen as soon as you discover a neighbor 10 turns sooner than you would otherwise when scouting and continues right through spotting for Artillery and Air Units. Cheap tile buy is a smaller but still tangible benefit, especially since cultural expansion will often take tiles a city can't work over tiles a city can.
     
  18. Naresh

    Naresh Warlord

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    I love the American's ability, means I can bomb cities with the range promotion without also needing the +1 sight promotion.

    Egypt's ability I find very... meh. +20% to building wonders? That's cool, but hardly inventive. Same with France.

    I find Germany very lack luster. I'd prefer to see some production buff, but somehow different to Russia...

    Celts ability peters out very quickly, and like many others Spain's is very situational. You either get a nice 500 gold bonus and a cool tile to work... Or you get 100 gold and watch and civ work it. And has limited uses. - a very good ability, but I'd prefer to see +1/2 happiness per wonder found, rather than 500 gold, with an extra 1 if it's within your cultural borders
     
  19. Aurelius321

    Aurelius321 Warlord

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    This.

    The movement bonus is so good for that era it's unbelievable. My last game was America and I needed to take out Germany who expanded like mad and had some beastly natural terrain giving them great defensive spots. Being able to get my minutemen across those hills was clutch
     
  20. GlobularFoody

    GlobularFoody Warlord

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    Well, after playing a game as Sweden, I've changed my mind completely. I'll take England's UA over Sweden's any day of the week. I'm not sure how things like this get through testing, but I found every part of Sweden's UA completely useless. Great People are too rare to gift to CS for a mere 90 influence, that's only 1500 gold worth of donating, and the AI Civs refuse to sign DoFs with the player.
     

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