Weather talks

[Daw]

Which means that whenever a little ice forms overnight or there is a rare snow, everything shuts down and it's incredibly dangerous.

I see. While I've been searching for what the winter may look like in the US, I came across this summary having it for all states with regard to snow, including Georgia. And, frankly, although I am used to driving in snow, I would think twice before daring to go on that road shown for Georgia in a car with summer tires...

Meanwhile, it was raining the whole day today here. If it goes like this for a week as weather.com promises, we'll see what color our grass is, too.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I've lived in Georgia all of my life.

I don't think I've ever seen any sort of winter tire or tire chain in person.

It usually snows two or three times a year here, but rarely even half an inch at a time.

The ground is not usually cold enough when it starts for much of it to stick. Snow usually leads to getting the roads wet and then freezing with black ice if it stays cold long enough.

Temperatures often drop below freezing overnight but almost always reach at least the upper 30s (and often closer to 70) during the afternoons. That gives a lot of time for snow melting and refreezing on the roads.


Atlanta purchased a lot more road salt and snow plows after the blizzards a couple years ago, and is currently still in the mode to overreach rather than underreact. That doesn't mean they will clear all residential areas frequently.


The whole Metro Atlanta area is on very hilly ground, with many roads built at steep grades that would be considered unsafe anywhere that got much snow.


(The worst snow storm I remember happened when I was in elementary school, and I am pretty sure it happened in August. We got something like 9 inches in a single hour due to a freak blizzard triggered by a hurricane. Temperatures were back in the upper 70s the next day. The snow melted quickly, but we still had a couple more warm snow days off from school since it took longer to repair power line that the blizzard had knocked down.)

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Well you would have to figure out the ratio of

People who don't need snow tires in snowy places
-------------------------
People in snowy places


The numerator would include lots of people who have access to decent public transit* (NYC, Chicago, etc), don't or can't drive (elderly, school children, etc) and those who live in cities that can generally clear snow fast enough that you would only need snow tires for a few days a year, in which case many opt to stay home.

*And the NE is the region with the most people who get lots of snow but is also the one region with the best public transit in the US. And Chicagoland also has decent public transit, which makes up a lot of the total population of 'upper midwesterners'.

Public transit doesn't do any good if you can't get to it. Around here it's the home/business owners who are responsible for cleaning the sidewalks and some of them just don't care if anyone can get through or not. It's not unusual to find that the city snowplows have buried the bus benches in snow and piled up windrows that passengers then have to climb over to get into the buses.

 

[Daw]

Temperatures often drop below freezing overnight but almost always reach at least the upper 30s (and often closer to 70) during the afternoons. That gives a lot of time for snow melting and refreezing on the roads.

That fits round about late October or early April here, +/- couple of weeks, depending on how the year goes. At these times I already (or still) use winter tires. In fact, some people here who want to save on costs of having 2 sets of tires prefer using winter tires all the year round, though there is obviously no need for them during the warm half of the year.

OTOH, I know I have to use winter tires in winter anyway, so I will have to put them on anyway, so I do it early enough to stay safe. If the October/April conditions were the coldest in the year, I probably wouldn't bother too.

The whole Metro Atlanta area is on very hilly ground, with many roads built at steep grades that would be considered unsafe anywhere that got much snow.

This street is probably the steepest you get in Moscow, but there may be a few competing others. Normally, unless you know where to search for trouble and actively do it, you don't have to drive on anything steeper than an intersection on-ramp.

Spoiler :

And I haven't seen a real wheel chain either

 

[Daw]

It's not unusual to find that the city snowplows have buried the bus benches in snow and piled up windrows that passengers then have to climb over to get into the buses.

This kind of... stuff... isn't unusual here, too. With the difference only perhaps that we don't have your blizzard thing (well, on this side of the Urals). With snowfalls distributed evenly through the winter, not coming in a wholesale lump, the sports for the passengers is not climbing over windrows but rather stepping over them. That sometimes calls for a good stretch though to make a step of the required length.

P.S. It stopped raining. Now it's snowing.

 

[Cutlass]

I think I got what the difference is. We don't have your blizzards here, so we can't have feet of snow overnight, and then fine sunny dry weather with positive temperatures ensuring dry asphalt for the next month.

Instead, it can snow lightly for months, with only short breaks, so that each morning you have an inch or two of snow to brush from your car before you go (and the municipalities have to brush it away from the streets). And then any time and anywhere you go, you go on fresh snow or slush. It may be less than half-inch deep, but it's still enough to slide, and it's more often there than it's not.

This make the days when you don't need snow tires scarce here. BTW, when I bought my car it was January and the car was equipped with summer tires, and I went home just fine, and was driving around for a couple of days before I had it rebooted.

So I can even imagine myself saying, "I don't need snow tires," because I can go around without them. It's just that with them I need to go out of my way and do stuff I otherwise wouldn't to see if my traction control or ABS work, because normally I don't see them switching on whatever the weather is.

On the other hand, I usually reboot in the second half of October, i.e. well before the snow. And reboot back into summer tires mid-April, i.e. after the snow is completely gone and will hardly reoccur. So, I don't see a problem in using winter tires on dry asphalt, too. But that makes sure that I never participate actively in sports like car curling like that (note that the fire truck in the end of the vid is quite fine and doesn't slide anywhere while the road is obviously very slippery):

Spoiler :

Link to video.

Or or car bobsleigh like that (which is btw exactly in conditions I described above as being usual here).

Spoiler :

Link to video.

The last video is from WV (West Virginia?), and it is to the South-West from where you are, right?

Icing conditions like the West Virginia vid typically don't happen this far north. More southern areas get the icing, because they are on the border between being warm enough for rain and cold enough for freezing. When you go far enough north, you get snow, not freezing rain or sleet. So not the ice storms. No tire type helps you in an ice storm. Just get the hell off the road until it's cleared. When roads are icy, nothing is safe. My father used to tell a story about spinning out a fire truck on icy roads one day. If it gets bad enough, even the utility trucks out clearing the roads will use tire chains. Those are about the only sure method of getting traction on ice.

Further north than I am, where snow storms are more frequent, and roads aren't cleared as well, then snow tires do make a lot of sense. I'm half way between New York City and Boston, if that helps you locate me. Here I use all season tires. And those are plenty good for most moderate snow conditions. If I lived another 1-200 miles north or in the mountains I'd get snow tires. The majority of cars in this area will have all season tires. So as long as the driver is careful, that's good enough. Further to the south many people don't use all season tires, or snow tires. Those are the people who get in the most trouble when they do encounter snow, because their cars are the least prepared for it, and the drivers are the least prepared, and experienced, with it.

Here are the tires I have. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=TrueContact If you look at the tests and reviews, they are tested and reviewed as being very good tires in all conditions. On top of that I have an all wheel drive car. And I have a fair amount of experience driving in the snow. So I feel safe enough.

 

[warpus]

I looked up some Canadian laws, suggestions, etc. and it seems that if the temperature drops down below 7C, it is a good idea to have winter tires on your car. Here's some other interesting stuff that came up:

Only the province of Quebec, which instituted law 42 in 2007, requires that all motorists install four winter tires on their vehicle, from December 15 to March 15. But there are certain similar laws elsewhere in Canada.

All Canadian provinces recommend installing your winter tires when the temperature dips below 7 °C.

The reason for this is quite simple: summer tires don’t grip the pavement as well in colder temperatures, and all-season tires aren't suitable for harsh winter conditions, such as ice and packed snow.

Note: Winter tires should be removed when the temperature goes above 7 °C. Heat can cause the rubber to wear out prematurely and decrease their number of useful years.

In British Colombia, tires with chains or winter tires are required by law only in certain mountainous areas. Studded tires, up to 3.5 mm, are permitted between October 1 and April 30.

While other Canadian provinces only require all-seasons for winter driving, they do allow studded tires.

In Alberta, Saskatchewan and the northern territories (Northwest Territories, Yukon, Nunavut) studded tires are not subject to any specific dates or restrictions.

In Ontario and Manitoba, studded tires are permitted from October 1 to April 30.
Nova Scotia and New Brunswick permit studded tires from mid-October to the end of April (May 1 in New Brunswick).

Prince Edward Island allows studded tires from October 1 to May 31.
Newfoundland and Labrador laws don’t allow studded tires before November 1, but permit them until the end of May.

source

It makes sense that regional laws and standards keep usual local weather and road conditions in mind, but where I live, yeah, it would be stupid to drive around in the winter without snow tires. Many American cities near the great lakes have to deal with a similar winter like here in southwestern Ontario, so I'd expect drivers in affected areas to play it safe accordingly.

 

[Daw]

Icing conditions like the West Virginia vid typically don't happen this far north.

The thing is that the conditions on that particular vid are not icy. It's packed slush. It is as slippery as ice is, I agree there, but the difference is that it is much softer than ice. Tires with proper tread pattern (a.k.a. "fir tree" pattern like here or here or similar) will cut it and push it out of the flat spot (or whatever the area where the tire contacts the road is called).

No tire type helps you in an ice storm. Just get the hell off the road until it's cleared. When roads are icy, nothing is safe.

It is true. But the degree of how much it is unsafe is different. Of course you cannot go with your usual highway speed on an icy road. But the question is whether or not you can go at all.

In the vid below the guy goes from story telling to testing tires in a hockey box (ice) at about 0:40. Red car shows exactly what we have seen earlier in the vids I posted: "a piece of soap in a bowl" flight pattern. With all-season tires, you're in the silver car. I confirm the black car performance is not fake.

Spoiler :

Link to video.

The point is that you can go safely even on plain ice like in a hockey box, although slowly and carefully. And you don't spin off or slide sideways.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

...and problem solved.

 

[Daw]

...and problem solved.

Nah. Screw propelled vehicles still beat that.

Spoiler :

Link to video.

And I doubt either is allowed to hit the common roads. But then, who needs the roads, anyway?

___________________

It was neither snowing nor raining today. We even had some sun! Would have been a fine day if not the cold wind and water all around...

 

[Thorgalaeg]

This one should be allowed.

 

[Daw]

But then we've actually gone all the way back to this:

Spoiler :

And it does not have any heater inside. No radio, too. And no navi... And I am also unsure about how much environmentally friendly it is, based on the CO₂ and solid waste production... How are you going to sell that to people, eh?

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Zero emissions.

Wait, the methane counts?

Crosspost: great minds...

 

[Borachio]

I don't care anything about the weather. (Since if I have to go out in it... I have to go out in it whatever it is.)

I'm a connoisseur of forecasters' hand ballet, though.

Here's a prime example:


Link to video.

Just look at the way that hand swooshes over the map! Perfect.

 

[Daw]

Yeah... makes me wish I was a map...

 

[warpus]

Her accent sounds so delicate and womanly.. I think I'm in love

 

[Daw]

If it goes like this for a week as weather.com promises, we'll see what color our grass is, too.

We did see what color our grass is. It was disgusting. Like this:

Yech!
______________________

Also, a question to northerners: does it happen where you live that, when the snow melts away, some asphalt seems to do as well?
______________________

It's been raining during the night getting us shiny ice on the parking lots and backstreets (main roads were just wet with deicers).

And now it's snowing beautifully with about an inch of it already and growing... At the end of the day I guess there will be some perfect slush to trample and splash around.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Here it continues sunny and warmy, as every single day since last autum. It is boring. Would like to live in a place with bad weather to have something to post.

 

[Daw]

It is highly philosophical (which Kyriakos might confirm and develop upon, I assume). Even a plain paradise has a potential of making one rant if the said one has nothing to compare it with.

Besides, I don't think I live in a place with bad weather, really. I'm telling you, the snowing now is spectacularly awesome and it really delivers the sense of serenity. I love it, no sarcasm.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

It is boring to see every day the same blue sky with some white clouds. I like rainy days lightings and all that stuff too. We havent had interesting weather since the ocasional summer storm.

Of course i mean "bad" weather as interesting changeable weather, not bad lin tbe sense of "hellish" or "low quality" weather.