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Weird Sitting Bull Start

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Jellybug, Mar 25, 2020.

  1. Jellybug

    Jellybug Chieftain

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    Location:
    Plains Hill
    Emperor/Fractal/Normal. NHNE

    Ran into a weird start with our fine feathered friend (saves attached, note: I use BUG).

    Spoiler T0 :


    Luckily Sitting Bull comes with fishing, but unluckily we're in the boonies. This is the kind of map I used to re-roll. I'm bunkering down, but the gambit is unclear and I would love some insight.

    Spoiler Mining-BW completed :

    I settled on the banana after taking a peek west on turn one and not seeing food. The northern peninsula ends offscreen with a desert incense and a single lousy clam.

    At least it's warm and green. I'm about to whip this worker and start chopping. Two warriors to grow, then a work boat, then a settler.

    Second city probably goes on the second banana and shares the crabs. But all around me I see jack sh1te. What's the play here? Sailing-myst-masonry-Great lighthouse chop in capital? Or self tech IW in 20 turns and clear the land around me, expanding like normal, albeit more slowly? The island to the right of me seems intriguing (although it could be connected, I'm not sure yet).

    Part of these depend on what my warrior and eventual work boat discover, but I have a decision to make right now in what to tech, and again very soon in where to settle third. To me this looks like construction war vs. Wang Kong on three/four cities (wherever he is; I met him first so he's probably close and to the south) via a mathematics bulb. What do y'all think?

    Much love,
    Jelly
     

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  2. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Everything you've done so far seems good. :thumbsup: 2nd city on nana, go GLH is a sensible idea and with dogs you shouldn't have too much trouble with the barbs. You don't need to go myst for masonry though. Hopefully there are decent city sites towards south. I'd put :espionage: on Wang, he's the better techer and Julius is closer so a more likely victim. If you go GLH, I wouldn't dream about a construction attack though, just settle the island and tech ahead.
     
  3. Jellybug

    Jellybug Chieftain

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    I guess Wang is on the eastern island himself; I must have missed where his early unit came from. Situation so far is meh.
    Spoiler T84 :
    I got the GLH, but saw an opportunity to block off some okay non-coastal land to the south so I went for it. I self teched IW after mysticism and masonry, which was a mistake in retrospect, but I didn't meet Pericles or Shaka till recently so I couldn't have known. Could be worse. [my] Tech rate is slow, but I have more land than I expected and plenty of production.
     

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  4. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    Not bad I think, but maybe Chaco Canyon was just too greedy. A city 1N of stone would've been +2:commerce: from trade routes and has river tiles. You can lose if Julius declares on you, so you could consider gifting him a city.
     
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  5. Jellybug

    Jellybug Chieftain

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    Sure enough, the red fist rises.

    Spoiler T122/175 AD :
    3 turns to Feudalism. After that, Caesar can stick his red fist up his tergus crassus. Great merchant has been keeping the ship afloat so far. I'm stable at about 50 beakers which is pretty crap, but I just can't pass up such good sites. There's another to the west with 2 fish, 1 crab, and an iron that would make a great globe site if I can keep it. I have a feeling protective is about to shine.

     

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  6. Jellybug

    Jellybug Chieftain

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    Spoiler Two questions I have at turn 159 :

    4 turns from lib. That race should be in the bag. This is where I make the decision on how to win.

    1)My tech rate has been inflated by two great merchants, and I find myself in a competitive position typical of a lot of my island games, where I will be at tech par during my first attack, but will fall behind after that attack. JC has the pyramids. Should I lib Nationalism or gunpowder/chem/steel? I think I wipe out JC with cannon and muskets/pikes, then use his pyramids to catch up, foregoing Nat'lism for now as I have no marble for Taj anyway.



    2) Just popped a great scientist. I have an academy in my new capital already. I could bulb astronomy later or use for a golden age. Or settle (but I read that is bad, so idk). What's the play?






    @sampsa you were very right about the greedy city. JC culture bombed it so it's basically useless. On the other hand, it got me two great sites south of it so it might be worth. He declared on Pericles btw, he and everybody else.
     

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  7. sampsa

    sampsa Ghost

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    I would save GS for a bulb. Can't you bulb chemistry soon? I'd try to take steel with lib.
     
  8. Jellybug

    Jellybug Chieftain

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    Mmm the scientist bulb would have gone to printing press. What could I have done to make it go to chemistry?
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    PP has precedent over Chem in bulb priority. Sci Meth has precedent over both with either Chem or Astro as prereqs (SciMeth requires PP but PP does not open it). You need GP to open Chem. So I think you would have either avoided Machinery to not open up PP. or tech PP outright while avoiding Astro. (astro will open Sci Meth and thus avoid the Chem bulb)

    PP is not a bad bulb option IMO, especially if you have a lot of developed cottages. It is cheaper but unless you have a huge population it will not be bulbed outright, so it works well and gives you a lot of beaker OF when you finish.

    I'd say techs like Chem, Astro and PP are the last of the good GS bulbs. Then GMs take over in priority ...for trade mission not bulbing
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  10. Jellybug

    Jellybug Chieftain

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    @lymond thank you for the tips about bulbing. This situation comes up a lot where I get a GS right about now and now I finally know what's coming for the bulb. Here I needed astro to build galleons, as I changed targets to Wang (he built AP and would have stopped war w/JC).

    Wound up using it on sci meth for quicker state property. Thank you for the help lymond and @sampsa this one's looking good.
     
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