Weird situation... help explain?

[gruther4]

Hey there... casual player coming back to this game after an absence.

I noticed something weird just now... It is about 1000BC and I'm at war with Japan and have lots of swordsmen sitting around waiting till I have enough numbers to attack his very well protected cities. So, I'm basically covering most of his useful tiles around his capital. He has one other city, but it is far enough away to not contribute to this situation.

So, I can see everything that goes in and out of this city, and I'm covering his tiles. Now, in 3 turns he has completed a settler and then 2 archers, one right after another. How in the world is he making archers so fast?!? He isn't whipping them, because the population hasn't changed (3). He couldn't possibly have that much production or overflow with no mines or resources. It isn't the draft since nationalism is far off and he isn't losing population.

I just see no way for that to be possible, unless the computer operates under drastically different rules than human players. I was always under the impression that CIV IV had basically a level playing field... more or less. Being able to magically make units doesn't seem very level to me. I'm playing Noble difficulty, on a small terra map at normal speed.

I just want to confirm what I saw, and see what the mechanic behind it could be. If computer players get free units when they are threatened, it will certainly change how I plan for wars in the future. Thanks for your input!

Grant

 

[PieceOfMind]

Have you got a savegame before the units popped out?

Most likely he was cutting forests. Each forest generates 30 on normal speed. One or two forests cut plus a bit of overflow from the settler could easily account for what you observed, I think.

If it's not that, there would be another logical explanation. AIs don't magically get free units on any difficulty level, except the ones they start with on turn 0 or when they are gifted a city.

 

[DMOC]

They aren't supposed to get free units. It's possible that he had those units stacked in a queue, but knowing how dumb the AI is, I doubt it. I would have guessed that they came from a tile that you didn't have visibility of, but if you claim that you saw all nearby tiles, then that's out too. The last possibility is chopping forests, but again, the AI is dumb and doesn't utilize chopping very often.

 

[gruther4]

Good idea on the save game... I'll see if I can find one. That might explain it, too, if I look at it closely enough.

It wasn't forest chopping, I would have stolen their worker

 

[gruther4]

Ok, I found an old save game and went back to it... I think the first archer came in from outside. I moved my units a little differently this time, and I found an archer a bit further away to the west. It probably used a road to move toward the city, and I thought I saw it coming OUT of the city.

The save game was useless as a test, though, since they didn't even build a settler this time...

Never mind! Thanks for your advice. Settler, nothing, archer is at least plausible.

Grant

 

[DigitalBoy]

Is it maybe possible that the settler was near completion, the city grew to size 4, Tokugawa whipped for 1 pop to rush the settler (so that the city was again size 3 when it was your turn), and then used the overflow to complete the archers in one turn each?

 

[PieceOfMind]

Well the city can't grow while the settler is being built.

 

[batavier]

Well the city can't grow while the settler is being built.

It's possible that the settler was whipped with a nearly full foodbar, so the city immediately grew again.

 

[miked1991]

It's possible that the settler was whipped with a nearly full foodbar, so the city immediately grew again.

Thats the only plausible way it could have happened, although I wouldn't have thought the overflow would be enough for two full archers, depends on the game speed i guess.

 

[PieceOfMind]

The city would grow on the following turn in that case, after having a full food bar for a turn. The city doesn't grow on the same turn as when it builds the settler. i.e. if the settler is whipped it has to have shrunk on that turn, not stay the same size.

 

[batavier]

The city would grow on the following turn in that case, after having a full food bar for a turn. The city doesn't grow on the same turn as when it builds the settler. i.e. if the settler is whipped it has to have shrunk on that turn, not stay the same size.

I tested did and the city did grow immediately, even with the whipped settler on top of the queue and a white population number. There would be only 3 producing citizens for a turn, but the player never sees the lower population.

 

[PieceOfMind]

I tested did and the city did grow immediately, even with the whipped settler on top of the queue and a white population number. There would be only 3 producing citizens for a turn, but the player never sees the lower population.

Could you elaborate on your test method?

Turn 0: Settler 1 turn from completion, with city at size X. Whip settler to take city size to X-1.
At end of turn 0, settler is constructed and city stays at size X-1.
Turn 1: City is at size X-1.
At end of turn 1, city will grow to size X (assuming the food surplus is high enough).

If you have an example that contradicts this can you show me please?

 

[batavier]

Could you elaborate on your test method?

Turn 0: Settler 1 turn from completion, with city at size X. Whip settler to take city size to X-1.
At end of turn 0, settler is constructed and city stays at size X-1.
Turn 1: City is at size X-1.
At end of turn 1, city will grow to size X (assuming the food surplus is high enough).

If you have an example that contradicts this can you show me please?

my test method is: make sure the food bar is nearly full (at least 26/28 at size 4 for normal speed), put a settler in the queue, wait until you can whip for 1 pop, whip the settler.

The city is indeed at size X-1 at the end of turn 0, but at size X at the start
of turn 1.