Welcome to Rhye's and Fall of the Greek World (Revived again)

[stillblackadder]

I also would like to thank you for your amazing work. It is so nice to see people being passionate about modding!

 

[bluepotato]

Thanks guys. Hopefully I can release a beta version of 2.0 in a week or two.

 

[bluepotato]

Sorry for the recent lack of updates, unfortunately I haven't had as much time as I hoped for. Of course I'm still working on the project, but it'll definitely take a while to finish the next release if I continue at the current pace.

 

[DuskTreader]

Hello! I have been playing this mod recently and I want to say I really love it! I come here with a funny screenshot, a serious error and a not-so-serious one.

First the serious error: a few turns after the attached save, I settled a Great Prophet in Phaistos, and this cause the end of the world (a crash to desktop). I'm going to try to replicate this, saving every turn until the prophet is born to see if the CTD occurs. Regardless I've also attached the PythonErr2log.

On a more lighthearted note, look at these beautifully bizarre city names in the western Mediterranean.

Finally, Gilgamesh's greeting text is broken.

 

[DuskTreader]

I was unable to replicate the CTD unfortunately

 

[bluepotato]

Hello! I have been playing this mod recently and I want to say I really love it! I come here with a funny screenshot, a serious error and a not-so-serious one.

First the serious error: a few turns after the attached save, I settled a Great Prophet in Phaistos, and this cause the end of the world (a crash to desktop). I'm going to try to replicate this, saving every turn until the prophet is born to see if the CTD occurs. Regardless I've also attached the PythonErr2log.

Glad you're enjoying the mod. I'm unable to open the saves, what version are you using?
EDIT: nevermind, turns out it was a problem on my end. I'll try to look into it.

Finally, Gilgamesh's greeting text is broken.

Most of these greeting text issues will be fixed in 2.0 (including Gilgamesh's).

 

[DuskTreader]

Finished that game. Overall it was a wonderful experience! One oddity I'd like to point out though: It's weird that the Minioan Center, the Minoan UB that replaces the castle, is attached to Engineering, which is a late game tech that most Minoan players and almost all Minoan AIs will likely never see.

 

[Edmund Ironside]

Yeah the Minoan Center thing is a legacy from when I imported the Minoan Civilization from Civ Gold. I never changed their UB. I agree it is a strange choice for them. I think their UB should appear much earlier and should give some kind of science bonus.

 

[bluepotato]

I think their UB should appear much earlier and should give some kind of science bonus.

Yeah that makes sense. I've modified it to be a replacement of walls which gives +25% research. This may counterbalance the fact that I've removed flood plains from Lower Egypt's grassland, which might make their UHV impossible.
By the way, I'm pretty much finished now with the 2.0 beta, just trying to hunt down a weird CtD which sometimes occurs when launching the 900BC scenario. Though I'm calling it a beta version for a reason, so if I don't manage to solve the problem soon I'll just release it like that.

 

[bluepotato]

RFGW 2.0 beta released! It includes almost all features of 1.8, plus some changes and other new stuff. You can download it here. Note that it's stored in a new repository, so if anyone's using git, they should rename/move/delete the old folder and clone this one. Previous versions can still be downloaded from the RFC-Greek-World-old repository.
While I'm calling this version a beta, based on my (rather limited) testing it's fairly stable. Still, you may encounter some CtDs. In that case, providing a save and optionally the My Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/Logs/rfgw.log file and the My Documents/My Games/Beyond the Sword/Logs/PythonErr.log file would help a lot.
Besides the complete rewrite of pretty much every RFC mechanism (save for UHVs), the largest differences between 1.8 and 2.0 are:
- Mercenaries, leader swapping, conditional spawns were re-added
- Plague was removed, not that it really worked before anyways
- Large portions of Egypt and Nubia were modified
- Merged platybuilder (+ added a city name editor)
- Multiplayer support, kind of. Hotseat works, other multiplayer modes are untested. Also, autoplay is a bit weird but that doesn't really affect gameplay.
- Speed, rolling a Hunnic game takes about 50% of the time it does on the previous version
- Somewhat less bugs, from what I can tell
Here's the full changelog if anyone's interested:

Spoiler :

Additions:
Added historical leaderhead swapping
Added David leaderhead for Israel
Added Hiram leaderhead for Phoenicia
Added platybuilder
Added multiplayer support (only hotseat with 2 players was tested, you might run into OOSes in network games). It's still quite unstable, opening a save during autoplay results in a crash. To access multiplayer, press the Go Back button after the mod has loaded.
Added conditional spawns: Byzantium will only spawn if Rome's stability is under very solid and controls Constantinople. The Sassanids will only spawn if Persia is dead.

General changes:
Changed the Dido leaderhead
Moved Dido to Carthage
Significantly altered the stability system
Re-enabled random barbarians. Most historical, "regional" barbarians still spawn, albeit that's semi-random as well.
The Hittites now start with Beer Making
The Hittites no longer start with Iron Working
Increased amount of Hittite starting units
Reduced amount of Nubian starting units
Reduced amount of Babylonian starting units
Reduced amount of Assyrian starting units
The Babylonians now start with Mysticism
Nerfed Athens's modifiers
Increased Nubia's inflation modifier
Lowered Rome's inflation modififer
Worsened Egypt's research modifier
Removed plagues
New Spartan diplomusic
Colonies civic now reduces negative economic stability
All culture of a civilization is completely removed from the map in case of a collapse of a civilization. This might be changed in the future.
Hittite UP now applies to everyone and adds +3 attitude points instead of +8 (so that it isn't completely useless)
Adjusted Elamite settler values
Goody huts are now randomly generated
Changed third Egyptian UHV condition
Changed second Sumerian UHV condition
Byzantine UP now requires Christianity
Removed 1.8 religion mechanics except holy city relocations. I still like the idea, but it was badly implemented and I'd like to focus on other things for now instead of rewriting that as well.
Changed Minoan unique building to Anaktora, a replacement for walls which reduces city maintenance costs by 20%
And other things I've already forgotten about...

Map changes:
Changed lots of stuff in Egypt, including the Nile's flow
Removed peaks around Egypt
Added a tile to the Sinai peninsula to prevent building the Suez canal
Removed flood plains from the Nile delta and added a wheat resource in exchange
Changed some coast tiles to ocean and vice versa
Completely remade Nubia, now it looks somewhat less weird

Technical changes:
Almost all RFC mechanics were completely rewritten. These are:
- Dynamic rise of civilizations (in DLL). A notable advantage of the new implementation is that all playable civilizations are independent from player slots. This means that any number of civilizations can be added, so long as the number of alive players never exceed the maximum number of slots.
- Appropriate starting techs, starting units, starting wars and historical independent cities (stored in WBSave, handled by DLL)
- Stability and collapse of civilizations (in DLL)
- Pre-defined areas (stored in WBSave, handled by DLL). These are now called provinces and their names are displayed when hovering over a tile (green = core province, red = not core province).
- Modifiers (stored in WBSave, handled by DLL)
- Leader swapping (swap dates are stored in XML, handled by DLL)
- Historical settler values (stored in WBSave, handled by DLL)
- City names (stored in WBSave, handled by DLL)
- UPs (now all of them in DLL)
WBSaves are now stored in json format to make all of this easier to handle
Removed some modifier categories that didn't really make sense (and weren't properly implemented in previous versions anyways)
Removed many XML comments (they were triggering annoying asserts)
Reduced the amount of slots by 1 as a proof of concept. Reason being that if there are any bugs related to my new Rise and Fall implementation (which is quite likely), this should be the easiest way to discover them.
Civilization IDs are now hardcoded in CvEnums.h (as opposed to the previous version, where they were in CvRhyes.h and Consts.py).

Fixes:
Fixed quite a few problems related to the previous RFC implementation
Fixed some dynamic name TXT keys
Fixed some diplo messages
Fixed Byzantine UP
RFC music isn't played after starting the game
Fixed some leaders' favorite religion

Known issues:
Economic stability is terribly unbalanced
AI chooses stupid civic combinations regarding civic stability
900BC scenario is broken
AI settling patterns are weird since the compact empire modifier has been fixed

What still needs to be done before the full 2.0 release:
- Civilopedia. I haven't merged RFC's civilopedia yet, also the civilizations section is broken on the main screen.
- Mercenaries screen. It's almost completely usable (except it doesn't show provinces) but doesn't look nearly as good as the original mercenary mod.
- Balancing, especially economic stability. I just feel like it gets worse every time I try to fix it maybe I should just use DoC's economic stability system.
- Conqueror events. It was nice to see Roman Africa in previous versions. Also we're still using the BtS AI, which is terrible at conquering stuff.
- 900BC scenario. I did fix the weird bug I was talking about last time (because, as it turns out, it affected 4400BC as well) but didn't really finish the scenario so I wouldn't bother with trying it.
- Optimization and refactoring. While I'm generally pleased with the code I ended up with, there are some parts of it that could still be done better/cleaner.
- UHVs. In theory they *should* work, but I've only tested the Hittites so others might be broken. And IIRC some UHVs don't use the new province system yet.
- A settler map editor.
- 1.8's religion system. I still think it's a good concept, but I haven't had time to re-add (and fix) it yet. Though writing all this C++ code did improve my debugging skills (I finally figured out how winedbg works ), so it shouldn't take that long now.
- Bugfixing! I did playtest most of the code I've written, but surely I missed at least some bugs.

 

[DuskTreader]

Tried it playing as Nubia! I love the new South Nile geography. The leaderhead change mechanic also worked (I saw Carthage's leaderhead change). I do have an error to report: I got a python exception on startup, and also on saving (whether I initiated the save or it was an autosave). I've attached a zip file with photos of the error I saw.

 

[DuskTreader]

My file attachment doesn't seem to be working, so here's a google drive link instead https://drive.google.com/open?id=1L1AXPJDoPXTaMmEwlBqa0JGuSfjNLjfo

 

[bluepotato]

Thanks for the report. I can't open the google drive link though, it says I don't have permission.

 

[DuskTreader]

Try this https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1L1AXPJDoPXTaMmEwlBqa0JGuSfjNLjfo?usp=sharing

 

[bluepotato]

That looks strange, the error is apparently in a file that doesn't even exist in 2.0. Could you try deleting the mod's folder and downloading it again?

 

[DuskTreader]

Thank you for the advice! I did that, loaded a Celts game, and so far I see no errors either on launch or during autosaving/normal saving. I think what must have happened is that when I copied the new files, I didn't delete the old ones, so leftover files were causing the error.

One bug hasn't gone away though: I can't see the descriptions of the Expansion civics. Is that an error anyone else is getting?

 

[bluepotato]

One bug hasn't gone away though: I can't see the descriptions of the Expansion civics. Is that an error anyone else is getting?

Oops, I somehow forgot about those. I'll fix it soon.

 

[DuskTreader]

Is this effort to contribute city name maps still a thing https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/city-names-map.334632/ ?

I noticed that that not all of Britain has city names for the Celts (specifically, I founded "Vienna" approximately where real Pymouth is)

It seems like it would be fairly easy to fill out a city name map for the Gauls in Britain using this tool https://www.geonames.org/ and https://www.openstreetmap.org/ at least with modern Gallic/Cornish/Welsh names. Thoughts?

 

[bluepotato]

Yes, 2.0 even contains a city name editor for that purpose (button on the left bottom of the default WorldBuilder panel). But using modern city names doesn't make too much sense either. Instead, there are quite a few ancient maps on the internet, like this one: https://dh.gu.se/dare/ (though that mostly contains Roman names, but we'll need to fix the Roman city name list as well)
Also, RFGW isn't the only RFC mod to contain a Celtic civilization, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to take a look at others as well. For example, Krieger-FS recently made a Celtic city name map for Civs Reborn, which I'll just quote here:

First, amazing job with the Celts!

I've played few games and noticed that most of their cities are named after their tribes. While I consider this naming procedure useful and appropriate when we deal with non-urban civs, the Celtic peoples were able to found large towns and fortresses (oppidum), many of them that gave rise to important modern European cities. Thus, since last week I did some research in some mods (particularly RFC in Abundance and RFC Classical World), games and wikipedia to make some suggestions for city names. The names in bold are the cities that I think are more important for the Celts (higher settler value and possible canonical), in italic are Latin ones (if applicable) and after the modern ones.

Please note that I'm far from being a specialist about the Celts or Iron Age Europe, so any comments and futher suggestions are welcome.

British Isles:

Spoiler :

View attachment 549282

Ireland:
Béal Feirste (Belfast) or Cúil Raithin (Coleraine)
Gaillimh (Galway)
Eblana (Áth Cliath, Dublin)
Inis Sibhtonn (Luimneach, Limerick)
Corcaigh (Cork) or Eochaill (Youghal)

Scotland:
Inbhir Nis (Inverness)
Glaschu (Glasgow)
Dùn Èidean (Edinburg)
Obar Dheathain (Abardeen)

Wales + Cornwall:
Cair Seiont (Segontium, Caernarfon)
Moridonon (Moridunum, Caerfyrddin [Welsh], Carmathen)
Tre war Venydh (Tintagel) or Lannstevan (Launceston)

England:
Luguwalion (Luguvalium, Caer Liwelydd, Carlisle)
Isuer (Isurium Brigantum, Aldborough)
Rigodunum (Mamucium, Manchester)
Eborakon (Eburacum, York)
Uriconon (Viroconium, Wroxeter)
Ratae Corieltauvorum (Leicester)
Camulodunon (Camulodunum, Colchester) or Venta Icenorum (Caistor St Edmund)
Corinium Dobunnorum (Cirencester) or Caerloyw (Glevum, Gloucester)
Verlamion (Verulamium, St. Albans)
Iska (Isca Dumnoniorum, Caerwysg, Exeter)
Durnovaria (Durotrigum, Dorchester) or Sorbiodunum (Sarum, Salisbury)
Calleva (Calleva Atrebatum, Silchester)
Durouernon (Durovernum, Cair Ceint, Cantebury)

Iberia:

Spoiler :

View attachment 549283

Portugal:
Brakara (Bracara Augusta, Braga)
Callaice (Portus Cale, Porto)
Olisippo* (Lisboa)
Ebora (Évora)
Ossobona* (Faro)

Western Spain:
Brigantia (Brigantium, La Coruña)
Lugo (Lucus Augusti, Lugo)
Lankia (Lancia)
Asturica (Asturica Augusta, Astorga)
Cluniaco (Clunia)
Helmantia (Salamanca)
Iplacea (Complutum, Alcalá de Henares)
Mirobriga (Augustobriga, Ciudad Rodrigo)
Tole (Toletum, Toledo)
Budua (Badajoz)
Ibolka (Obulco, Porcuna)
Tartessos*

Eastern Spain:
Bengoda (Pompaelo, Pamploma)
Numantia (Numancia, close to Soria)
Salduie (Caesaraugusta, Zaragoza)
Bolskan* (Osca, Huesca)
Gerunda (Girona)
Termantia (Montejo de Tiermes)
Skeiza (Segeda, Calatayud)
Segobriga (Saelices)

* Founded by Iberian peoples, but I've added just to have more names in the region.

Gaul:

Spoiler :

View attachment 549284

Western France:
Gesocribate (Brest?)
Condate (Condate Redonum, Roazhon, Rennes)
Corbilo (Condevicnum, Naoned, Nantes)
Ingena (Abrincatae, Abranches)
Ratumacos (Rotomagos, Rouen)
Vindunon (Vindinium or Cenomanus, Le Mans)
Atricum (Carnutum, Chartres)
Lemonum (Pictavium, Potiers)
Turone? (Caesarodunum, Tours)
Burdigala (Bordeaux)
Avaricon (Avaricum, Bourges)
Tolosa (Tolouse)

Eastern France:
Gesoriacum (Bononia, Boulogne-sur-Mer)
Nemotecenna (Nemetacum, Arras)
Bratuspantion (Caesaromagus, Beavais)
Samarobriva (Amiens)
Lutetia (Paris)
Durocorter (Durucortunum, Reims)
Argantorate (Argentoratum, Strasbourg)
Cenabum (Aurelianorum, Orléans)
Alesia (Alise-Sainte-Reine)
Vesontio (Bensançon)
Nemossos (Augustonemetum, Clermont-Ferrand)
Bibracte (Augustodunum, Atun)
Gergovia (Gergovie)
Lugdunon (Lugdunum, Lyon)
Nemausos (Nîmes)

Rhine basin:
Atuatuca (Aduatuca Tungrorum, Tongeren)
Batavorum (Noviomagus Batavorum, Nijmegen)
Ubioidunon (Colonia Agrippina, Cologne)
Treuorum (Augusta Treverorum, Trier)
Borbetomagus (Augusta Vangionum, Worms)
Tarodunon (Kirchzarten)
Brenodor (Bern) or Octoduros (Vallensium Octodurus, Martigny)
Genawa? (Genava, Geneva)

Italy + Adriatic Coast:

Spoiler :

View attachment 549285

Italy:
Taurasia (Augusta Taurinorum, Torino)
Stalia* (Genua, Genova)
Medhlan or Mediolanun (Mediolanum, Milano)
Mutna (Mutina, Modena)
Velathri* (Volaterrae, Volterra)
Brixia (Brescia)
Felsina* (Bononia, Bologna)
Aritim* (Arrentium, Arezzo)
Sena (Sena Gallica, Sinagallia)
Patavium* (Padova)

Adriatic Coast:
Tergeste (Tergestum, Trieste)
Iader* (Iadera, Zadar)
Dalminion* (Dalminium, Duvno, Tomislavgrad)
Skodra* (Scodra, Shkodra)

* Founded by non-Celtic peoples, mainly Ligurians, Etruscans, Ilyrians and Veneti.

Central Europe:

Spoiler :

View attachment 549286

Northern Germany
Phabiranon (Bremen)
Leufana (Lüneburg)
Tuliphordon (Tulifurdum, Hannover)
Calancorum (Wittemberg)
Patrespuna (Paderborn)
Loupfourdon (Lupfurdum or Lupphurdum, Leipzig)

South Germany + Austria:
Mongotiacum (Mainz)
Radasbona (Castra Regina, Regensburg)
Lupodunum (Ladenburg)
Alcimoennis (Kelheim)
Kambodunon (Cambudunum, Kempten)
Boioduron (Batavis, Passau)
Lentos (Lentia, Linz)
Windobona (Vindobona, Wien)
Noreia (Noricum)

Chech Republic + Poland + Slovakia:
Rhougion (Rugium)
Lugidunum
Budorigum (Wroclaw)
Kalisia (Kalisz)
Karrodunum (Krakow)
Casurgis (Prag)
Eburodunum (Brno)
Asanca (Kojetin)
Istros (Istropolis?, Bratislava)
Singone (Sarovce)

Ps: many cities here were founded by Germanic peoples insted of the Celts. Most names comes from Ptolomy's Geography.

Balkans + Anatolia:

Spoiler :

View attachment 549287

Hungary + Croatia + Romania:
Solva (Esztergom)
Bormanum*
Savaria (Szombathely) or Arrabona (Gyor)
Akink (Aquincum, Budapest)
Sopiane (Pécs)
Segestica (Siscia, Sisak)
Napoca* (Castrum Clus, Cluj)
Sarmizegetusa*
Durostorum* (Silistra)
Argedava*

Serbia + Bulgaria + Turkey
Sirmium (Sremska Mitrovica)
Singidun (Singidunum, Belgrad)
Navissos (Naissus, Nis)
Serdika (Serdica, Sofia)
Tylis or Uskadama* (Edirne)
Lygos* (Istanbul)
Ankyra* (Ankara)

* Founded by non-Celtic peoples, mainly Dacian, Scythian (Iazyges) and Thracians.

Finally, I have one doubt about dynamic names for the Celts. I don't know if this issue is just for me (I couldn't use the git system to switch the game versions, so this may be the reason) but seems that the only one that shows up after settling the capital is "Hallstatt + something". In any case, we could use likely names such as Celtic Kingdoms, Celtic/Gallic Confederation, Gallic Empire, Celtiberian Confederacy, Brythonic Kingdoms, etc.

 

[The Turk]

For a game set in 4,400BC, with civs centred around the major civilisations of Western Eurasia, the first and primary fatal flaw of this mod is that whilst all of Northern Europe is depicted, there is like 5 tiles (only slight exaggeration) from the Mediterranean to the Zagros Mountains....

I'd recommend using a more realistic map projection for this project. For a very good map of the Middle East see: RFC: Sword of Islam. In fact using that same map projection, with Greece included could be the basis for a very good Ancient Middle East mod (rest of Europe is irrelevant before the rise of Rome anyway, and Greek/Phoenician colonies can be represented as building projects). You just need the civs that make up the "International Age" (as Ancient Historians call it), through to brief Macedonian Empire.