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Were Soviet Tanks Ever Better Than Western Tanks?

I've been reading a lot of articles on WWII planes and one thing that stands out about the period immediately prior to the war and the first couple of years was how much experimentation was going on. I believe this happened with tanks as well. Basically, modern technologies were emerging and designers were trying all sorts of novel combinations and tactics before settling into a few rigid patterns by the end of the war that have more or less persisted to today.
 
My field of 'expertise' are aircraft but I would say that since WW2 they has been usually inferior as seen in countless proxy wars.
 
looking forward to NATO to liberate Ukraine , so that it can also liberate 'stan . Will acquire a couple thousand of Russians if they find going against M-48s tough .

no , it is relevant and on subject . Continuation of the thing in Ukraine thread .
 
I want a spider-tank:

upload_2022-2-27_15-21-27.png
 
I think that the main problem with spider tanks is that the human brain can not operate on six legs.

It'd require an AI to travel.
 
I think that the main problem with spider tanks is that the human brain can not operate on six legs.

It'd require an AI to travel.

They could be fused with human intelligence, like the Titans in WH40K.
Or, yes, the movement can be calculated by a computer.

Btw, interesting that (?) you imagined they'd operate two of the limbs as hands.
I expect them to use all eight limbs to move swiftly so as to avoid being hit.
 
Crab tanks look cool too :)

But gorilla tanks tankettes are just stupid:

upload_2022-3-9_21-53-1.png


It looks like one of the smaller mecha dinosaurs in those old Zoids games. The ones no one would buy (I had the Stegosaur and the Triceratops) :)
 
The Sherman was a terrible tank. It is often praised however it had thin armor a weak main gun it was nothing more than a medium tank taking on the role of a heavy tank. Aside from that American armor philosophy was all out of wack. The Sherman's main role was supposed to be infantry support and tank destroyers were supposed to engage enemy tanks. No one told the Germans this though. The tank destroyers, WWII era, were open topped and susceptible to being suppressed by small arms fire not to mention they too were thinly armored. They did have a better main gun. The end result a lot of dead American tank crews, but a lot of Sherman's were able to be replaced due to America massive industrial strength, quantity over quality.
 
The Sherman was a terrible tank. It is often praised however it had thin armor a weak main gun it was nothing more than a medium tank taking on the role of a heavy tank. Aside from that American armor philosophy was all out of wack. The Sherman's main role was supposed to be infantry support and tank destroyers were supposed to engage enemy tanks. No one told the Germans this though. The tank destroyers, WWII era, were open topped and susceptible to being suppressed by small arms fire not to mention they too were thinly armored. They did have a better main gun. The end result a lot of dead American tank crews, but a lot of Sherman's were able to be replaced due to America massive industrial strength, quantity over quality.

Sherman had thicker armor than PzIV and T-34. And was a lot more reliable than both. Also ranked high on crew comfort and ergonomics.

Most of the time it did face infantry (85-95%).

It's bad reputation as such is because of wehraboos idolizing German cats and the Sherman's getting shot with high velocity 75 and 88mm. PzIV and T-35 didn't do any better when getting shot with equivalent.
 
i don't know if there is a time period which answers the question in real history, but i have heard of a few in war thunder

though generally speaking, military hardware is purpose-built for a job. so how much something is "better" vs not can be measured by comparing vehicles directly, but also by how closely they met their objective for their cost
 
Sherman had thicker armor than PzIV and T-34. And was a lot more reliable than both. Also ranked high on crew comfort and ergonomics.

Most of the time it did face infantry (85-95%).

It's bad reputation as such is because of wehraboos idolizing German cats and the Sherman's getting shot with high velocity 75 and 88mm. PzIV and T-35 didn't do any better when getting shot with equivalent.

Thicker armor does not necessarily mean better armor, slope has a lot to do with penetration, mechanical reliability is important, but tank to tank superiority trumps that. Getting to the fight does not equate to winning the fight. I really can't put a percentage on tank v tank and tank v infantry engagements. Id like to know where you came up with that figure. Ergonomics and crew comfort don't really mean anything if the tank is filled with holes. Pz IV and T-34's are the rough equivalent of the M4, but by 44 and 45 they were grossly outdated and under gunned too. The difference is the enemy and the Soviets evolved, the Americans did not.

" 3rd Armored Div. entered combat in Normandy with 232 M4 Sherman tanks. During the European campaign, the Division had some 648 tanks completely destroyed in combat and we had another 700 knocked out, repaired and put back into operation. This was a loss rate of 580 percent." Belton Y. Cooper, Death Traps

Its bad reputation also comes from American service men who saw the results of combat. I have no idea what a wehraboos is.


Taken from: https://militaryhistorynow.com/2017/09/12/tank-busting-blowing-up-the-myth-of-the-mighty-m4-sherman/

"I am a tank platoon leader, at present recovering from wounds received during the Battle of the Bulge. Since I have spent three years in a tank platoon doing everything, and at one time or another held every position and have read everything on armour I could get my hands on during this time, I would like to get this off my chest. No statement, claim, or promise made by any part of the Army can justify thousands of dead and wounded tank men, or thousands of others who depended on the tank for support."
To Corporal Francis Vierling of the U.S. Second Armored Division, “the Sherman’s greatest deficiency lies in its firepower, which is most conspicuous by its absence.”


He continued:

"Lack of a principal gun with sufficient penetrating ability to knock out the German opponent has cost us more tanks, and skilled men to man more tanks, than any failure of our crews- not to mention the heartbreak and sense of defeat I and other men have felt when we see twenty-five or even many more of our rounds fired, and they ricochet off the enemy attackers. To be finally hit, once, and we climb from and leave a burning, blackened, and now useless pile of scrap iron. It would yet have been a tank, had it mounted a gun."


Had America and the Soviets squared off with each other post WWII, the Soviet armored columns would have made minced meat out of American armor. There is no doubt in my mind. Also, the Soviets did not have the same problem the Germans had, they had no shortage of armoured vehicles especially of the heavy variety: IS 1, IS 2, ISU 122, SU 152, ISU 152, KV 2, and potentially the KV 1. Also there are probably more I am leaving out. The Sherman is utterly incomparable and woefully inferior to any of those AFVs.

While the Americans were upgrading the Sherman with a 76 mm gun the Soviets were putting naval sized artillery in theirs. 122mm 152mm.
 
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That's 'cause the US strategy was to outproduce the germans, so for every tank the germans took out they built like 5 more.
 
Thicker armor does not necessarily mean better armor, slope has a lot to do with penetration, mechanical reliability is important, but tank to tank superiority trumps that. Getting to the fight does not equate to winning the fight. I really can't put a percentage on tank v tank and tank v infantry engagements. Id like to know where you came up with that figure. Ergonomics and crew comfort don't really mean anything if the tank is filled with holes. Pz IV and T-34's are the rough equivalent of the M4, but by 44 and 45 they were grossly outdated and under gunned too. The difference is the enemy and the Soviets evolved, the Americans did not.

" 3rd Armored Div. entered combat in Normandy with 232 M4 Sherman tanks. During the European campaign, the Division had some 648 tanks completely destroyed in combat and we had another 700 knocked out, repaired and put back into operation. This was a loss rate of 580 percent." Belton Y. Cooper, Death Traps

Its bad reputation also comes from American service men who saw the results of combat. I have no idea what a wehraboos is.


Taken from: https://militaryhistorynow.com/2017/09/12/tank-busting-blowing-up-the-myth-of-the-mighty-m4-sherman/

"I am a tank platoon leader, at present recovering from wounds received during the Battle of the Bulge. Since I have spent three years in a tank platoon doing everything, and at one time or another held every position and have read everything on armour I could get my hands on during this time, I would like to get this off my chest. No statement, claim, or promise made by any part of the Army can justify thousands of dead and wounded tank men, or thousands of others who depended on the tank for support."
To Corporal Francis Vierling of the U.S. Second Armored Division, “the Sherman’s greatest deficiency lies in its firepower, which is most conspicuous by its absence.”

He continued:

"Lack of a principal gun with sufficient penetrating ability to knock out the German opponent has cost us more tanks, and skilled men to man more tanks, than any failure of our crews- not to mention the heartbreak and sense of defeat I and other men have felt when we see twenty-five or even many more of our rounds fired, and they ricochet off the enemy attackers. To be finally hit, once, and we climb from and leave a burning, blackened, and now useless pile of scrap iron. It would yet have been a tank, had it mounted a gun."

Had America and the Soviets squared off with each other post WWII, the Soviet armored columns would have made minced meat out of American armor. There is no doubt in my mind. Also, the Soviets did not have the same problem the Germans had, they had no shortage of armoured vehicles especially of the heavy variety: IS 1, IS 2, ISU 122, SU 152, ISU 152, KV 2, and potentially the KV 1. Also there are probably more I am leaving out. The Sherman is utterly incomparable and woefully inferior to any of those AFVs.

The Sherman's stats were similar to other medium tanks and better than some.

Ergonomic is important eg fire rate and operating the tank (crew fatigue).

Sherman did have sloped armor.

T-34 was very cramped and had very bad visability. Look at how many the Soviets lost. Also on the inside things like shells being ejected. In combat conditions T-34 fire rate dropped by almost 50%.

Late war Sherman's had wet ammo racks so they tended to explode a lot less.

In Korea they got a 2-1 kill rate vs the T-34.

Tanks are good vs infantry. The 75mm had a better high explosive shell than the panther. Higher velocity gun need a thicker armor casing.

The Americans were also limited by logistics eg the weight of the tank to ship and load with cranes.

It was also reliable. Can't remember how many Panthers were lost to breakdowns. Early model T-34s had massive transmission problems.

British also upgraded them with a 17 pounder (76 mm) so you had a tank similar to the panther but was reliable.

Logistics is also very important then and now.
 
That's 'cause the US strategy was to outproduce the germans, so for every tank the germans took out they built like 5 more.
Yeah, explain that to the servicemen fighting and dying over there. That's just awful. Its not like America did not have the means or ingenuity to produce a better tank.
 
The Sherman's stats were similar to other medium tanks and better than some.

Ergonomic is important eg fire rate and operating the tank (crew fatigue).

Sherman did have sloped armor.

T-34 was very cramped and had very bad visability. Look at how many the Soviets lost. Also on the inside things like shells being ejected. In combat conditions T-34 fire rate dropped by almost 50%.

Late war Sherman's had wet ammo racks so they tended to explode a lot less.

In Korea they got a 2-1 kill rate vs the T-34.

Tanks are good vs infantry. The 75mm had a better high explosive shell than the panther. Higher velocity gun need a thicker armor casing.

The Americans were also limited by logistics eg the weight of the tank to ship and load with cranes.

It was also reliable. Can't remember how many Panthers were lost to breakdowns. Early model T-34s had massive transmission problems.

British also upgraded them with a 17 pounder (76 mm) so you had a tank similar to the panther but was reliable.

Logistics is also very important then and now.

It was a decent medium tank for a moment. However, toward the end of the war it was completely inadequate and in desperate need of being replaced. I still stand by my previous state, under-armoured, under-gunned overrated terrible tank.
 
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