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Werewolfs(1.3)

Discussion in 'Rise from Erebus Modmod' started by Krieger66, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. Krieger66

    Krieger66 Lord of all things necro

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    From the civipedia I get the sense that werewolfs are supposed to be alot more powerful than base units, but in actuallity they turn out to be alot weaker. They lose access to any promos outside of "skip for level", they don't even have the cool graphic anymore and their at -1 strength and randomly spaz out untill about level 4 or 5. They then become a "blooded werewolf", as strong as the base unit, can make werewolfs, and also don't get new promotions.

    Am I missing something here or did the werewolfs get raped since fall further?:confused:

    I mean vamps are a whole lot better, and they don't even have a "waiting period". As far as being able to convert enemies a high level priest could do the same, and why would you want the units weak enough to be killed off by these guys anyways...:rolleyes:
     
  2. Meldon

    Meldon Warlord

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    I dunno, I've actually never used werewolves as I like to play as civs that lore-wise would make no sense having them, and I like to follow the lore.
     
  3. xienwolf

    xienwolf Deity

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    Location! Location!
    The system was intended to allow you an easy access to capture with some interesting twists tossed in. One of them being having to nurture the unit, and another being avoidance of certain requirements to keep the units.

    I suppose a mechanic which could be added to help the weak wolves along would be a "rebirth" of some kind. Either a chance for immortality rez at the cap, or a chance of escape with some small healing when you should have died.


    The lack of available promotions I am assuming is a RifE decision/issue. They ought to maintain the same unitcombat as the base unit and be fully promotable.
     
  4. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    They become promotable again once they regain their base strength. I have no idea why that is happening, we changed nothing in the system.
     
  5. Sjru

    Sjru Dragon

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    IMO werewolves should be unable to take "forbid promo for level" if they'll gain the ability to being promoted again once they get their base strength. (So you will not waste promos thereafter).
     
  6. Krieger66

    Krieger66 Lord of all things necro

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    I was thinking something close to that...maybe stealing the spider promotion line and being able to focus your werewolves along the lines of stealth, strength, speed, or regeneration.

    For instance: Strength I-20% strength, strength II +1 strength, Strength III +1 strength again and maybe collateral damage/stealth I +visibility, stealth II Hidden Nationality, Stealth III Hidden with regeneration's 3rd tier giving you an immortal werewolf and only takeable at level 10?(immortals are made from upgraded level 8/9 units I think)

    I'd guess it probably has something to do with what Sjru said, where maybe it overrides the other promos? Or maybe their unit category doesn't have most promotions enabled yet like with summoned units?:confused:
     
  7. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    No, it most certainly does not override other promotions (that promotion is available to all units, but only if they are unable to take any other promotion).
     
  8. Ilari

    Ilari Chieftain

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    This has, honestly, been my biggest gripe with FF and RifE. I can understand where this system came from, why would a unit change what it is just because it contracted lycanthropy? But if you're going to do that to us, don't weaken the units and make them loose their levels and promotions. In practice, when you send the Baron in with a military push, it's next to impossible to use the captured units to help keep the push going. They're weaker, some times by far, if the enemy civ has well promoted units, than everything they're going up against, and at the end of the day, you're lucky if you have a single blooded werewolf.
    Now, I will admit, the original werewolves could be very easily broken, but it was fun watching the world fall to an ever-growing werewolf army. Still, I'm not against trying new ideas and fixing things that are broken, and the current werewolf system was a neat idea, but it just doesn't work. It practically nerfs werewolves completely. They really need to be changed again.
    I do have an idea for that, though, if you want to keep something close to the current system. First, get rid of the strength decrease. There should be a werewolf race promotion that gives bonuses and minuses to things that werewolves would be good or bad at. For example, +20% strength and maybe a +1 speed for recon units. Hunting and tracking is something they'd be very good at. Also a smaller boost, maybe +10%, to melee units. Killing things is also something they're good at, but they're not as good at using weapons. For ranged combat, I was thinking something along the lines of a -10 or -15 to ranged combat. Werewolves are not good at using weapons, and their non-retractable claws would probably damage the strings on the bows. On top of that, there should be a line of werewolf-only promotions. I'm not sure what all those should include, but level-dependent strength boosts and a greater chance for creating new werewolves, and the like should probably be among them. Also, an automatic promotion at say level 6 or 7 to make them greater werewolves, with a +1 or +2 strength, +1 speed, and +25% chance to create more werewolves. It should go without saying that the strength boosts of the current system would be gone.
    Also, the current werewolf aesthetics are nonexistent, and that's disappointing. But that's relatively minor, and can wait.
     
  9. Krieger66

    Krieger66 Lord of all things necro

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    then I'm confused as well...:blush:

    I wouldn't complain about getting the old graphics back, as far as the bonuses maybe there could be a form alternating ability with hybrid form getting bonuses similar to Ilari's idea(and lose base abilities), and a regular form with no alternate bonuses outside of "race" promo, ie ability to create new werewolves.:confused:
     
  10. Jarwy

    Jarwy Warlord

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    *sigh* Those were the days...

    1) unload Baron to an island with lots of barbarians & animals
    2) watch 20 turns of carnage
    3) ???
    4) Profit

    Yeah, it was overpowered as hell, but now he is plain useless. I would return the system to the old one, but lower the chances of spawning a ravenous pup. Also, spawned werewolves would keep racial traits such as; elven, dwarven, etc.

    Maybe in 1.4 or 1.31 or whatever comes first? ;) We can dream, yes?
     
  11. Sjru

    Sjru Dragon

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    I don't understand that. What does '???' instruction mean?
    Why you say one would get profit from risking Baron in a island?

    He is far from useless. Have you ever tried getting 2 Acheron's from Subdue beast? (One werewolf Acheron and the other, subdued). And actually, with some luck, one could get religion heroes that require their religion. The Werewolves doesn't abandon you.
    Despite that, the system is far from perfect. The most annoying flaw, is, as they said, that you cannot promote your werewolves (Specially deadly with Adepts/mages) and they start weak (also they can go crazed, but this is easily solved with a Loyalty spell or if they're commanded by Baron himself).

    I'd like to dream too. But balance (should go) goes first, so...
    Anyways, Rife 1.31 proyect would likely be delayed 3 weeks or a month (With luck, 2 weeks or less), because everybody is delighted with CiV.
     
  12. Oranos

    Oranos Warlord

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    This will explain it, but visit at your own risk.
    Spoiler :
    http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Profit
     
  13. Meldon

    Meldon Warlord

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    It's a tarp, I prefer Urban Dictionary.
     
  14. Jarwy

    Jarwy Warlord

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    Okay. That I haven't tried. Trying to subdue a dragon has always counted as getting your face melted kind of plan in my book. Have to give it a go at some point. Of course nowadays Acheron seems to prefer barb cities on arctic off the main continent for some reason...

    Getting their heroes would be fun, but they always get them killed so fast at some dungeon or another.
     
  15. Jarwy

    Jarwy Warlord

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    You guys are too kind. ;) Internet should be a learning experience.
     
  16. Oranos

    Oranos Warlord

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    We can always send him to /b/ on :):):):):).

    edit: Interesting, that forum I mentioned is censored.
     
  17. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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  18. Breez

    Breez King

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    1. Make reference to an old joke that stopped being funny/original years ago
    2. Assume everyone is just as geeky as you and understands said reference
    3. ???
    4. PROFIT!

    :)
     
  19. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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  20. Gravage

    Gravage Oh yeah.

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    It's not really a joke. Just a.. more entertaining way of saying things.

    Ah well. It beats bitterness any time o'day, and we've got enough of that around these days it seems.
     

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