Westboro Baptist Church

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There is no good translation.

Oh please Zarn. Then you do realize your arguement also works in reverse - i.e. you cant prove homosexuality isnt a sin biblically because there is no good translation that gives it a big thumbs up.

In other words you just commited the biggest cop-out of all time.

I also disagree with you about there not being a good translation and I got a funny feeling that Plot would probably disagree with you as well.

My parents are far conservative in social matters.

Ah...so its simple rebellion we are seeing. Now it all becomes clear.

You reject sources that question the that your Bible is mistranslated. Gee... what a surprise.

You reject sources that would say the opposite. Ditto and right back at cha.

Maybe you should try to actually think before you post more nonsense.

Unfortunately......we did. All it resulted in was you saying 'there is no good translation'.

Until then, don't expect me to respond.

Huzzah!

I like to discuss things not listen to other people make absurd claims,

You mean like the absurd claim that there is no good translation of the bible? Like that?

because they do not want to believe that they could be wrong.

You have described yourself quite nicely. Thanks!
 
Judge not lest yee be judged yourself :please:

He who is without sin, throw the first stone :jesus:

I don't know where I read these, but they always looked quite sensible to me. :)
 
He who is without sin, throw the first stone :jesus:
And just after he said that, Jesus was hit by a stone. He turned back and said "Mother, that's not funny"
 
People like to bring up Christ's injunction not to toss rocks; at the same time, he also made it quite clear that some behavior was not acceptable.

Now, I do think that it is quite reasonable to conclude from the Bible that God prohibits homsexual acts. On the other hand, given the difficulty (if not impossibility) of a true sola scriptura base, I think that one can legitimately claim to be Christian and still accept homosexual acts as not immoral. In other words, I don't consider this a defining doctrine of Christianity.
 
VAYIKRA PEREK YUD-HET (18) PASUK CAF-BET (22)

Ve-et zachar lo tishcav, mishcevei isha: toeva he

Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind; it is abomination

I shall go for a literal translation soon, this is just the temporary one until I get my biblical hebrew-english milon back

This is from the new testament?
 
People like to bring up Christ's injunction not to toss rocks; at the same time, he also made it quite clear that some behavior was not acceptable.
Even if the behaviour is not acceptable, Jesus still wouldn't judge the person (as in throwing rocks) but rather let his Father be the judge.

Judge not for yourself, lest yee be judged by the Lord. At least that is how I read that other statement.
 
Right, God will ultimately judge the behavior. But in the meantime, we can know it is wrong and even warn others of that.

I mean, I am certainly not talking about execution by stoning for anyone. And I try very hard to remember that only God knows all the circumstances. At the same time, I recognize that He has made it clear that some things are wrong.

(Of course, I don't really stress this issue, personally.)
 
I got that.
I'm reading from biblegateway:

Leviticus 21, it seems a prostitute Or a promiscuous woman should burn if her father is a priest. Funny thing is, not a word about men whoring themselves ... now isn't that odd? Are men not bound by the same rules?

9 And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.

But there's more:

5They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

Odd.

And it seems the handicapped are skip out of luck as well

16And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,

17Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.

18For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,

19Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,

20Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

21No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the LORD made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

But Leviticus 26 takes the grand prize:

Punishment for Disobedience
14 " 'But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you.

18 " 'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze. 20 Your strength will be spent in vain, because your soil will not yield its crops, nor will the trees of the land yield their fruit.

21 " 'If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve. 22 I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted.

23 " 'If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me, 24 I myself will be hostile toward you and will afflict you for your sins seven times over. 25 And I will bring the sword upon you to avenge the breaking of the covenant. When you withdraw into your cities, I will send a plague among you, and you will be given into enemy hands. 26 When I cut off your supply of bread, ten women will be able to bake your bread in one oven, and they will dole out the bread by weight. You will eat, but you will not be satisfied.

27 " 'If in spite of this you still do not listen to me but continue to be hostile toward me, 28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over. 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. 30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you. 31 I will turn your cities into ruins and lay waste your sanctuaries, and I will take no delight in the pleasing aroma of your offerings. 32 I will lay waste the land, so that your enemies who live there will be appalled. 33 I will scatter you among the nations and will draw out my sword and pursue you. Your land will be laid waste, and your cities will lie in ruins. 34 Then the land will enjoy its sabbath years all the time that it lies desolate and you are in the country of your enemies; then the land will rest and enjoy its sabbaths. 35 All the time that it lies desolate, the land will have the rest it did not have during the sabbaths you lived in it.

36 " 'As for those of you who are left, I will make their hearts so fearful in the lands of their enemies that the sound of a windblown leaf will put them to flight. They will run as though fleeing from the sword, and they will fall, even though no one is pursuing them. 37 They will stumble over one another as though fleeing from the sword, even though no one is pursuing them. So you will not be able to stand before your enemies. 38 You will perish among the nations; the land of your enemies will devour you. 39 Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their fathers' sins they will waste away.


Generally unpleasant wouldn't you say?

But you would support a death penalty? Since that's what Lev tells you. Stoning, or when daughter of a priest burning alive. I hope not.
Yes, I do see, so lets forget about that silly Leviticus book alltogether shall we?

Of course I support the Death penalty.

About the handicapped. If you look at the passage you will see that these are specific laws for Priests. This was to show that only those who had no blemish , both physical and spiritual could come before God and offer sacrifices. This is a specific law for one group of the population. Now you try and carry huge animals for sacrifice under these condition? So you can see that it does have a practical reason also.

If you look in the book of Judges you will see exactly that God did punish the people for their. Of course you left out what would happen shoulld they obey.
Leviticus 26:3-13 If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them;
4 Then I will give you rain in due season, and the land shall yield her increase, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 And your threshing shall reach unto the vintage, and the vintage shall reach unto the sowing time: and ye shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land safely.
6 And I will give peace in the land, and ye shall lie down, and none shall make you afraid: and I will rid evil beasts out of the land, neither shall the sword go through your land.
7 And ye shall chase your enemies, and they shall fall before you by the sword.
8 And five of you shall chase an hundred, and an hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight: and your enemies shall fall before you by the sword.
9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
10 And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
11 And I set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
13 I am the LORD your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, that ye should not be their bondmen; and I have broken the bands of your yoke, and made you go upright.

God is very serious about what he says and he will reward those who do what he says and he will punish those who refuse what he says. There is nothing harsh about that. If you are told what the punishment is going to be if you break the rules, then you are an idiot since you know the effects of doing it. You are also and idiot if do the wrong thing knowing that if you do god things for God, then he will reward you. The rewards and punishments are set in stone and they did come out in full when the both disobeyed God and when they obeyed God. The darkest times in the history of the Nation of Israel was when they disobeyed God, but their brightest times was when they obeyed God, which shows that what was written in Leviticus 26 to be true.
 
Judge not lest yee be judged yourself :please:

He who is without sin, throw the first stone :jesus:

I don't know where I read these, but they always looked quite sensible to me. :)

Also the passage says this.
Matthew 7:1-5 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Notice how it more than just simple judgement that is being condemned but hypocritical judgement.

Again in the John passage, Jesus says to the woamn,"Go and sin no more" Meaning that Jesus still considered what she did as wrong, but that he just wasn't condemning her.
 
Of course the rewards will be jolly and cheerfull, I simply wanted to know if you believed those Leveticus laws still aplied, and it seems you do.

So much for free will. Obey me or I will bring upon you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and drain away your life. Obey me or I will punish you for your sins seven times over. Obey me or I will send wild animals against you, and they will rob you of your children, destroy your cattle and make you so few in number that your roads will be deserted. Obey me or You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. Obey me or I will make their hearts so fearful in the lands of their enemies that the sound of a windblown leaf will put them to flight. They will run as though fleeing from the sword, and they will fall, even though no one is pursuing them. 37 They will stumble over one another as though fleeing from the sword, even though no one is pursuing them. So you will not be able to stand before your enemies. 38 You will perish among the nations; the land of your enemies will devour you. 39 Those of you who are left will waste away in the lands of their enemies because of their sins; also because of their fathers' sins they will waste away.

And this is before I send you to hell. :D

Now. Is this the way you'd like to represent christianity? Is this the way Jesus was representing Christianity? Furthermore, I do not obey Him and none of these threats have happened yet. In fact, I'm doing quite well, when I eat I am very satisfied, I don't have kids, so I allready cheated Lev's God out of a couple of punishments. Bit of a paper tiger this Leveticus innit?

Buy since you say only the laws regarding sacrifice have been made void, what about Leviticus 19:19 about the mingled seed and mingles garments?
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, "Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind; thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed; neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee."

Still applies?
The darkest times in the history of the Nation of Israel was when they disobeyed God, but their brightest times was when they obeyed God, which shows that what was written in Leviticus 26 to be true.
Actually it doesn't but that's ok. What would be your explenation for the holocaust? How did they wrong god to deserve that?

edit: I'm totally with you on your other post :)
 
Classical_Hero, it may be a bit redudant with Ziggy, but I would need your vast theological knowledge to give me some advices.

- I have some money problem, so I would like to sell my daughter as a servant (Exodus 21-7). According to you, what is a fair price?

- Leviticus-25-44 says than I can have slaves, male or female, providing they have been bought in a neighbouring country. A friend tells me that's applicable to Spaniards, but not to Germans. Could you shed some light on that? Why can't I have a German slave?

- My neighbour is working on Saturday, but not on Monday. Exodus-35-2 clearly says he should be put to death. Shall I kill him myself, or could the government help in some way?

- Leviticus-21-18 says one should not come near God's altar if he's short sighted. I need glasses (see picture of my avatar). Shall my sight really be 10/10? Would it be possible to make this requirement less strict?

- Leviticus-19-19. My uncle is seeding two different type of seeds in the same field, and his wife wear a shirt with 75% cotton and 25% polyester (I checked the label). Is it mandatory to gather all the inhabitants of the village to stone then to death, as said in Levitucus-24-10 to 16? Wouldn't it be possible to simply burn them alive in a simple private familly gathering, as it's done for people who sleep with close familly, as said in the holly book, 20-14?

This is not from me, but a translation of a text in French, so there could be a few translation error. I don't have an English Bible with me to check.
 
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