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What are my mistakes?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Northen Wolf, Feb 12, 2008.

  1. Northen Wolf

    Northen Wolf Young Hunter

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    Hello, from a new player to civ3 (and conquest/PTW) (have played Civ 1 beating monarch once).

    I am sorry If I am annoying or you have too many posts asking to 'rate me'. But as not so experienced Civ player I would like to ask that proposal.

    I have played like 8 games of PTW and decided to try conquest after reading 'Conquest of the World' in Civ 3 stories. I'm not in that hard level or playing on Earth map. My games are on warlord as chieftain is too easy to play (conquering the world with sipah is not that hard).

    I don't yet know what this site has to offer, so I'll just ask you to comment what am I doing wrong in my recent conquests game (on warlord level).


    MY first conquest experience was just terrible, all started out fine (warlord level), expanded with same pace as computer (had one city more than most computer players (AI's?)). But after volcano blew up 2 of my most important cities - most with biggest production and one with 2 resource in its borders.
    I rebuilt them, but after other lava flow destroyed them again, i gave up. So this is second try building an empire in conquests.

    (spoilers due perhaps not all would like to read my umm analyze?)
    Spoiler :
    Started expanding phase by building 2 warriors for exploring and then few settlers. Found quite many good city places and chose (IMHO) best of them. (Are coastal-cities built on one not used land tile, but near fish, useful?).

    Small analyze (Best I could do):
    Pasargadae - built by settler got from hut.

    Lagos - taken from Portugal after I Decleared on them for Art of War, starved it to small size(1), rigth after Conquering it.
    Chenju - Captured from Koreas, They decleared due Portugese Made military alliance.
    Starved Lisabon by surronding it with units(an. civi.) After that made peace with Portugal due 4 gold per turn is nice.

    Took Namp'o with 1 ancient cavalry backed up 2 by Crusaders.
    Destroyed koreans connection to capital and horses & saltpeter.

    Poyang was taken after starving it to size 6 (size where they do not get def bonus, right?)
    Destroyed Wonsan due Koreans not accepting my peace offer and it was size 8 city [those flip sooo often] (a bit gold per turn and 3 or 4 slaves) replaced city with my own settler.

    Got more workers as slaves than I expected. Can slave-workers to be sold back?
    If I join slave-workes with city, can that city defect or rebel more ?

    Have so few workers due I had enough to work the lands around city, b4 cities grow - irrigated/mined & road-ed lands were ready just then when cities grew. Usually keep like 1 per city.

    What about those forest, keep them or cut 'em down? If cut, then why? and reforest once I find that the new-grass-tile has no shield on it?

    And I am not using many unique units of Persians (immortals) due I saw no use.
    My war was first one in world and I have not enstablished any embassies yet, what is use of them other than maybe making civilization to face two enemies from 2 sides? How to rise my reputation?

    Oh and I did not plan to build so many wonders, they just appeared as computer did not build them... Should I have skipped them?

    I went first for iron working then to monarchy...
    I also have no idea what to do those mounted troops... (keeping few outside of city due defecting - i've lost a lot of units due that.


    HTML:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/137452/Saves.rar
    2 saves on conquest 1.22 (is that recent patch) (number is said on left&bottom corner of conquest main menu.
     
  2. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Welcome to CFC, Northen Wolf!

    Unfortunately, I can't look at your save right now, but perhaps I can answer a few of your questions from looking at your turnlog. I took out the spoiler tags to make reading my post somewhat less of a hassle.

    Rapid EXpansion in the early game is frequently called the REX phase and it's very important.

    At warlord level, you should be expanding much faster than the AI, provided you aren't playing some variant in which you limit your own expansion. Expand until there's no room left to expand, then go kick an AI around, take some cities and free up some real estate. Then expand some more.

    Yeah, you gotta watch them volcanoes. They don't destroy that many cities, but it can happen.

    Proper city placement is important, but since I can't look at your save, I can't really offer much as to what you've done. On the coastal city question, yes, coastal cities can be very useful. Fish provides extra food and coastal cities are the only ones that can build boats. Boats let you explore the outlines of your own continent, as well as making contact with other continents. That lets you put yourself in a position to trade techs between continents, which can be very profitable and productive.

    I suppose slaves could be sold back, but they're worth more to you than the AI will likely pay. Native workers count against your unit support limit and may cost upkeep. Slaves do not. So you can keep slaves by the dozens (hundreds if you can gather that many) and they'll work for free!

    And no, do not join slaves to your cities.

    If you're keeping only 1 per city, that's not enough. Shoot for 1.5-2 workers per city.

    It depends. Chop if you've got a big build you want done (like a granary or a barracks). You can leave them in place if you've got enough food, but need an extra shield here and there. I generally don't reforest grasslands.

    Oh, no! I'm not sure about other versions, but if you're playing Conquests v1.22, the Persian Immortal is a 30-shield, 4/2/1 unit. That's like getting Medieval Infantry, only earlier and cheaper. If the AI is defending with spears and archers, you should be able to hack them to bits with Immortals.

    Embassies give you a free peek into the AI's capitol, so you can see what they're building and what resources they've got. I'll leave the question as to embassies and reputation to someone who knows more than I, because I'm not sure.

    Might I recommend "The Four Rules of Wonder Addiction" by Ision? It's in the War Academy. If the computer didn't ask you what to build, look in your Preferences. I think there's a button there which makes the computer ask you what to build.

    While you're there, make sure "Always wait at end of turn" is turned on. That's a big help.

    Mounted units? Do the same thing you'd do with foot soldiers -- go stomp an AI!

    You can stop a city from defecting by garrisoning lots of units there (Civ Assist II and MapStat (I think) will tell you how many troops you need to stop a flip. Unfortunately, it usually takes a huge number of troops to do so. the exact mechanics of flips are a bit fuzzy to me, but part of the equation is how many natives and how many foreigners are in your city, so starve them down to size 1 after you capture them. Then let them regrow. New citizens born will be of your nationality.

    If you're playing Civ 3 Conquests, 1.22 is the latest patch.

    Hope this helps.
     
  3. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Northern Wolf, if you uploaded the file you can copy the link and paste it in your post so it easy to get to for everyone. Some will not bother to copy the url into the the address bar.

    I would add to Aabraxan post about volcano's, just do not plant town with 2 tiles of them, unless you must. Then they will blow up on your town and you won't have to rebuilt it and the roads.

    Wonder addiction is bogus to me, if you are strong player you can build them. At Warlord you can build them all and not slow down. The addiction is self corrected as you move up the ladder, you just won't be able to build so many and will be cured.

    I think the real point is that you do not need then and hence you should not STRAIN for them. If you can make one with no effort, go ahead.
     
  4. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    I did not read the spoilers, so I do not know why there are two saves from the same year. I just wanted to mention that some players do not have RaR, so that can be an issue.

    Anyway first thing I looked at was the spacing of towns and it is fine to be so wide at low levels, but to me it makes no sense. You just have too many dead tiles and most of the game you cannot use more than 12 tiles anyway,

    I see you are in Monarchy and I wonder why that was the choice? It is great if you are going to be at war all the time, but you are at peace. It is a war time government. It also encourages placing MP units every where and that cost money and those units are not really prepared to go to war.

    I do not like to see trees in the core at 1100AD. Those could have been chopped sooner to get the 10 shields and prepare the tile for rails.
     
  5. The Professor

    The Professor Emperor

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    First of all, Welcome to CFC! I'm sure that you will find that there are lots of people here who are willing to help you learn the game.

    Try not to build a city right next to a volcano, even if it is otherwise a perfect city site.

    That's true, however, I usually don't bother to wait that long; I just take along Catapults/Trebuchets/Cannon etc and bombard them until they're weak enough to attack with my offense.

    Raze and replace is a commonly used tactic. Sometimes (when you're low on settlers, for instance) you may prefer to keep the city. To help prevent flips, you may want to make most of the citizens into specialists, so there's no excess food, and then build workers. The workers produced will be foreigners, so you won't have to pay upkeep on them, though they'll work at half speed. Once you have the city down to size 1, you can let it grow, and the new citizens will be your nationality.

    Yes. And as Aabraxian has already mentioned, why would you want to, when they're free?

    If you have more workers than you need, you can join them to recently captured cities, to bolster the native population. But I would personally keep them until you've got railroads built everywhere, because it's great to get your rail network up quickly.

    I generally leave forests on plains tiles until I have railroads, because they have the same maximum shield capacity, unless I need more food. I generally cut the forest on grass, so I can use it for additional food. I rarely re-forest, except on tundra.

    Embassies let you know who is fighting with whom; without an embassy you won't know who's at war unless you witness a battle. Besides allowing military alliances, they also improve that country's attitude toward you.

    Attitude and reputation are two different things. To improve other leader's attitudes toward you, build embassies, trade with them often, don't go to war with them, and give them stuff. This is usually only important if you're trying to win by Diplomacy.

    Reputation is different. And once you've ruined it, it's almost impossible to get it back. There is more than one kind of reputation. If you attack while you have a Right of Passage agreement with that civ, or even if you don't, but you have a unit (even a worker or boat!) in their territory, you will ruin your ROP reputation, and civ's will be less likely to sign an ROP with you. Similarly, if you have a Mutual Alliance with someone, and make peace with your mutual enemy before the 20 turns are up, civ's will want lots of gold upfront before they will sign a MA with you. Lastly, if you are trading gold, luxuries, or resources with a civ, and the deal gets broken, either on purpose (you declare war) or accidently (a barbarian pillages a road) nations will be unlikely to take per-turn deals from you again.


    Monarchy is not a bad government for war, especially if you don't plan on making peace at any time. However, for most other situations, people prefer Republic, which has less unit support, and war weariness problems, but in Republic, every tile that is producing any commerce gets a second commerce automatically. This will allow for faster research and more gold.

    Horsemen, Knights, and later, Cavalry, are excellent attack units. They can retreat in battle if they're losing, unless attacking another fast unit. They are also good units to keep in your border cities, so that if a Civ declares war and moves into your territory, you can get to them before they can attack your cities. And it's an excellent idea to keep some good offensive units outside a recently captured city, so that if it flips, you can retake it quickly, before they can build additional military there.
     
  6. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    I think the unit mix is fine, not too many defenders. There is no need to build forts at this level and rarely any need outside of an AW game. Just wasting worker turns.

    You want a lot more workers, so you can have all tiles with roads and be ready to get those rails up quickly.

    I would like to see you try to eliminate someone and go on an annexing spree.

    I do not like to build structures, unless they are needed. The court in Lagos is not going to pay for itself and is not needed. I am not sure the harbor was a needed item either.

    Workers turns are precious, I would not waste them by working on mountains in a poor town. You have more important tiles to be worked.

    Trye is making a cathedral, not needed. A university maybe, else attackers.

    In Conquest pop can be specialist and scientist earn 3 beakers uncorrupted, so you usually are better off with a special, than a structure.

    Sorry I had to split the post and I hit the wrong key.

    Watch the building selection in small towns as they cannot use them and cannot support their maint cost.
     
  7. Desertsnow

    Desertsnow πr²

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    Volcanoes are dangerous. They don't destroy the actual city often (as Aabraxan said), but it can be devastating if it happens early on. Try to avoid putting your early cities near volcanoes in the future. :)

    Coastal cities are always useful. You can build naval units, and get extra food if you have fish nearby. Another good place for your cities is the tiles alongside rivers or lakes. You don't need an aqueduct if you have access to fresh water.

    Slave workers can be joined into cities, but yes, the city will be more rebellious if you're still at war with the slaves' native country. You probably should keep them out and about and working anyway. Slaves don't cost upkeep, though the catch is that they work at half speed.

    Workers in general are useful. My own gameplay improved vastly once I got more into the habit of training more workers (or buying or capturing slaves) earlier in the game.

    As for your military, you should have more attacking units than defenders. Train and keep a few spears (and other defenders later on), but you'll want units that can attack the incoming units before they actually attack a city.

    Most players agree that the usefulness of unique units (UU) depends on which UU you'll be using. Individual opinions vary.

    It's good that you're not too obsessed about wonders. Some are more useful than others, depending especially on how you plan to win. Choose wisely.

    Also, don't worry about annoying us with newbie-questions. We all were beginners once. :)
     
  8. Northen Wolf

    Northen Wolf Young Hunter

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    So, I'm just too slow? How to I make the umm settler factories then? I know micromanaging is needed. And should I go and get free spot even when it is INSIDE AI's borders and/or can no land or sea route connected with My main empire.

    I already have the coastline explored and I am not very good with those suicide galleries for looking new land - computer knows anyway where the land is. Once I can trade maps I will trade with world and see where the islands are.

    I had bolth, ancient cavalry (temple of Zeus) and crusaders, so I realy not needed My unique units. Now I am producing cavalry for offense and best def unit(like pikeman and musketeers).

    I have read it, and I think it is possible to manage without any wonders, it just takes more planning. (micromanaging, as you guys call it).

    I have "Always wait at end of turn" Always turned on (same as in Civ1, impossible to play without it. I also have the renegotiate deals on, and do not show friendly or own automated moves.


    I just have a huge(for me) amount of mounted units near one of my recently captured town. I am not sure where I should place them (if i place them into town, they will be safe, but if town defects, their all dead. Don't want to place them behind lines (into my towns) either as the distances Become then 1 turn longer and I might not be able to counterattack if computer attacks me.

    I was talking about using 1 free tile as city place, all others tiles are possible expansion for other cities. Just one tile near sea and fish, is free to build city on that tile.

    What do you mean??? Should I have destroyed Korea and should I declare on Portugal once the peace pact is over. (I can look when peace ends, in trades-> active, correct?)

    vmxa - you are suggesting me not to build structures (counting out barracks and library?)

    I've always gone from iron working(seeing iron is important, due games without one are impossible, IMHO) to monarchy (traded for wheel).

    I don't understand respublic and its corruption, does republic have more corruption? (I've been running monarchy as it has low corruption)... I can play under democratcy oltho war is harder there. IMO best leadership is either demo or communism or monarchy (due you can pay to hurry things instead using ppl And communism due low corruption.)

    So, should I place my cities into more tight formation?

    Also those trees are more productive (more shields) rather than just use 'em for grassland that has no shield on it, Should I still go for grassland?
     
  9. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    Avoiding (at least the Ancient) Great Wonders is a piece of advice I give to new players with some regularity and here's why: When I was playing Warlord (or thereabouts), I remember seeing someone (don't remember who, but a better player than I) saying that new players should try a game with (if I remember them correctly) the following restrictions: (1) No Ancient GWs; and (2) build only settlers, workers and military until expansion is done. I did that and it was a real eye-opener as to how fast expansion can really go. For new players who build lots of GWs in the early game, it's very easy to overlook just how much that can slow expansion down.

    Of course, strong players can build the Great Wonders, but strong players don't generally show up looking for advice on a Warlord-level conquest. As I didn't download the save (& don't have RaR), I don't know how many GWs Northern Wolf built. I don't know if it strained his empire to build them or not. His statement that:
    made me think he might have built quite a few.

    The key to building a settler factory is setting it up so that the town grows 2 pop in the time it takes to produce 30-shields. There are several War Academy articles on settler factories and I'd recommend reading them. The short story is that you need enough food for the city to grow by 2 in the time it takes to produce the 30 shields necessary to produce the settler.

    I would not grab a free spot inside the AI's borders like this. I would take my military and go *ahem* adjust the AI's borders. :p (IOW, go knock down some AI towns.)

    But map trading in Conquests comes pretty late. By that time, you could have discovered the other civs and have done quite a bit of trading. It may cost you a few boats, but IMO, it's worth it.

    But the ACs didn't come along until at least 5 turns after you discovered Math and Crusaders don't come along until at least 5 turns after you get Chivalry (is that right?).

    If you researched IW early, and it sounds like you did, you could have crippled (if not outright eliminated) a civ or two before you got to the Medieval Ages.

    Right on all counts. It is possible to manage without wonders and it does take more planning. No doubt that the Great Wonders are fun, but they're not necessary. My reasoning for the advice I gave is noted above.

    Losing lots of units to culture flips bites. No doubt about that. Here's an idea: (1) on the first turn of capture, pile tons of units in to quell any resistance; then (2) move them out to avoid losing them to a flip. After that, just be ready to recapture any cities that do flip.

    Iron Working (& iron) are important. The only real question is whether you self-research, trade for it, or beat it out of an AI. Any one of the above is a valid method of obtaining the knowledge.

    Search for threads around here for government discussions. This comes up pretty regularly. There's a recent post on whether republic or monarch has higher corruption, but I can't recall which off the top of my head. I've never used communism, but by the time I get there, my empire is all set up for Republic and I don't want another anarchy.
     
  10. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Northen Wolf

    "What do you mean??? Should I have destroyed Korea and should I declare on Portugal once the peace pact is over. (I can look when peace ends, in trades-> active, correct?)"

    Yes I would also destroy a civ, if I can. It is better to eliminate them, than to keep them around. As to declaring, I do not recall the game exactly, but you need more land and you have to take it from someone and soon.

    "vmxa - you are suggesting me not to build structures (counting out barracks and library?)"

    All structure need to be evaluated. A barrack is not useful in a place that nets one shield. It will not be able to build units anyway in a timely fashion. A lib is not warranted in a town that has 1 beaker or even 3 net beakers. That can change later.

    All structures need to be able to add something without costing more than they can contribute. Yes there can be exceptions.

    "I've always gone from iron working(seeing iron is important, due games without one are impossible, IMHO) to monarchy (traded for wheel)."

    Well also is a big statement. First Iron is not as important as horse in the AA. It is important in the Middle Ages, so you have time to acquire it and the tech.

    At some levels, you cannot afford to research Iron and must beeline for Philo or Lit. It depends on the level and the type of game you are playing. Also you UU has an impact.

    Is it an Iron type unit and do I want to employ it soon?

    " I don't understand respublic and its corruption, does republic have more corruption? (I've been running monarchy as it has low corruption)... I can play under democratcy oltho war is harder there. IMO best leadership is either demo or communism or monarchy (due you can pay to hurry things instead using ppl And communism due low corruption.)"

    I would not agree with any of those points. First forget corruption it is not important. I paid it no mind. It is like breathing, you just have to have it. Yes it cost you, but so what?

    Communism, I do not use it. It has a place in some specific points in some games, but not enough to matter. I either will not get big enough or the game won't last long enough for it to pay. If I get big enough, I will probably get too big for it to payoff. It is an optional tech.

    Demo, not useful for any but the most casual of games that you could win doing anything you want. It requires at least two optional techs, enough said. Not going to do it. I am going to get to the next age pronto.

    "So, should I place my cities into more tight formation?"

    Yes, there is no reason to use optimal placement. Do not listen to the crap about wanting 21 tiles for the core. You want to get to the point that you never research or have sanitation anyway.

    So what is the deal, well most of the game you cannot exceed 12 pop, so you cannot work 21 tiles or even 14 tiles. You are now forced to leave many good tile idle.

    Workers have to build more roads that have no value. You have fewer towns and that means lower unit support and few units coming out.

    If you do manage to play to the point that you have Sanitation and you build a few Hospitals, so can find 18 to 21 tiles for the capitol and a few other top cities. Just take tiles from the next place, till you have a no important town will tiles it will never use.

    I did not even address defense, as it is easier to defend CxxC placement.

    "Also those trees are more productive (more shields) rather than just use 'em for grassland that has no shield on it, Should I still go for grassland?"

    It is a fine point. During the AA, you may want to have a tile with a forest to work. Soon you will be to the point that you have workers that can be spared to cut that forest and mine the tile.

    You will have a few occasion where you may leave the forest for some time, but once you have rails you will have been better off to have chopped and gotten the 10 shields and mined. The rails gives you the second shield, 3 total if it turns out to be a bonus grassland.

    Another point is that at times the 10 shields now is worth more to me than the extra shield for the next 50 turns. My total shield yield is lower, but I got that structure up sooner. I may also need the extra food.

    So in short it is not a question of if, but rather when to chop.
     
  11. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Aabraxan, I do not have an issue with players learning to not build wonders as if they grew on trees. I only wanted to say it is not what causes them to have trouble with the game.

    It is all the other things they do that cost them. If you are doing all the other things correctly, you probably can build wonders.

    I did not mean to suggest they should build wonders, only that it is not right or wrong. It just has to be like the way you would do it in an higher level game.

    You would evaluate if you can do it in time and if it will hurt you. If it will hurt you, then you have to decide if it is worth the pain or not.

    Now I grant you that new players are ill prepared to make those decisions.
     
  12. Northen Wolf

    Northen Wolf Young Hunter

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    I've uploaded other save file, its like 300 years later (no idea about turns).

    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/137452/Northen_Wolf_of_the_Persians_1450_AD.SAV
    Spoiler :

    Russia declared me after I made deals with him on around 60 gc per turn,

    So I was forced to counter attack took all of his cities and brute forced thru few of russian 6+ size cities.

    Quite soon Carthage attacked me canceling few deals, possibility even RoP...
    So I made RoP with Portugal and attacked car. with all I had.

    Starved and razed& replaced one of his town, with my own - Planning to use that as troop-healing-outpost, would that work?

    Now, I'm not sure should i starve his towns or just brute force myself thru them and raze them, replacing the cities with my own, Perhaps making tighter formation of cities.

    Got railroad and changed production into workers. RR's still rock! Trying to connect my empire, I don't like USA near newly captured areas.

    I've been trying to build up some small navy and had one victory so far - I suck at sea sailing, usually my battleships lose to trieme and trieme not even losing sigle HP...

    Wanted my second palace to be in Moscow (due it is in the middle of land, not as it is(was) capital of Russia). But that city is not producing enough...

    Cities defense is getting bit weak also...
    Been trying to create small (like 25 or so) artillery army also (cannon->artillery)...

    ...

    Yes, basically all of 'em, expt the one that gives free temple in every city... I don't usually(in my usual game, have played like 8 full games, and quite a lot minor games, that have been lost...) build more than Art of War and Pyramids, but I have made without those, one game - where all AI's declared on me, as I was in the middle of big continent and blocked their movement.

    Similar thing I've been doing (building warriors til village is Getting near pop size 3, then switched to settler. Gave me plenty of settlers (IMO) BUT I'm afraid I am not able to protect new villages

    Been also trying to expand from outside to inside Making outer border first (trying to get onto horses & iron& Special bonus resources) and then settling large free areas inside...
    But, if I declare so early, more AI's won't like me and I am having even more trouble than giving away useless tech (selling at first then giving to civs who Don't like me).

    So, like in civ 1 I have to watch if city produces enough balls (brakers?)

    So, somewhere middle of Middleages, IF I have free workers, I should make group of 'em and cut forest on grassland?

    As you should understand, I am worried about computer-side diplomaty - They declare on me when they have to pass thru like 3 different countries to reach me.

    If I declare and raze they all will get mad at me and will dogpile or won't trade, even if i give away gifts for free (read it from trading guide...). I don't understand what makes computer mad at me (leading positsion, having resources I have, and ai has not and declaring upon other civs, owning its slaves and cities....)

    I've seen (pics) how some of you, profies, use compter against itself and make large conquests in like 1000 BC, while I am still troubling w. REX phase...
    It costs me producion in far away towns, making them more weaker, also if i produce defense home and move it to far away towns, I cannot develop good enough offense nor income for myself...
     
  13. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Northen Wolf
    "I've uploaded other save file, its like 300 years later (no idea about turns)."

    1450AD is turn 340. You can see that on C3C under score. I made a table for it long ago.

    "Starved and razed& replaced one of his town, with my own - Planning to use that as troop-healing-outpost, would that work?"

    Units heal as long as they are not in enemy borders. In C3C if in a barracks town they will fully heal in one turn, as long as they have not used their movement.

    "Now, I'm not sure should i starve his towns or just brute force myself thru them and raze them, replacing the cities with my own, Perhaps making tighter formation of cities."

    This is a situational thing. If you are making settlers for this purpose, then raze and replace is fine. If you have no settlers, then it is not an option, you either raze or capture.

    "I've been trying to build up some small navy and had one victory so far - I suck at sea sailing, usually my battleships lose to trieme and trieme not even losing sigle HP..."

    Forget the map, but in the main, I go very light on navy, if not a island map. As you see strange things can happen. They are galley ships, no trems.

    "Wanted my second palace to be in Moscow (due it is in the middle of land, not as it is(was) capital of Russia). But that city is not producing enough...:

    It is likely to be very corrupt and is best used to farm.

    "Cities defense is getting bit weak also...
    Been trying to create small (like 25 or so) artillery army also (cannon->artillery)..."

    Cities do not need to be defend, only borders and landing sites. 25 arties is a lot in most games.

    "Similar thing I've been doing (building warriors til village is Getting near pop size 3, then switched to settler. Gave me plenty of settlers (IMO) BUT I'm afraid I am not able to protect new villages"

    Until the land is full or unless you have a derange leader (Germany comes to mind), you should not have to worry a lot about towns. This give you time to be ready, so long as yopu are not seen as weak.

    "Been also trying to expand from outside to inside Making outer border first (trying to get onto horses & iron& Special bonus resources) and then settling large free areas inside..."

    Not my style, it has too many holes. If you are playing below Emperor, that can probably be done, otherwise it is very dangerous.

    "But, if I declare so early, more AI's won't like me and I am having even more trouble than giving away useless tech (selling at first then giving to civs who Don't like me)."

    Do not worry about them. If you are getting stronger, they are not going to like you anyway. I do not like the idea of gifts, unless it si to a very weak civ or a very very dangerous one. Then it is a tribute and I may have to pay.

    "So, like in civ 1 I have to watch if city produces enough balls (brakers?)"

    Well not really, only a few cities will be productive and a few more will be ok, the rest will stink and you do not have to much with them. So I do not put much into second tier place and nothing or nearly nothing into the lame one and much into the core.

    So look at it out put and it net. If it is 100% corrupt why spend anything on it?


    "So, somewhere middle of Middleages, IF I have free workers, I should make group of 'em and cut forest on grassland?"

    Again when is the key. Often you can benefit form those shields fairly early. In those non core towns, eventually I chop forest and then lay a rail down. If I can chop those tiles before rails, that speeds up my rail work.

    "As you should understand, I am worried about computer-side diplomaty - They declare on me when they have to pass thru like 3 different countries to reach me."

    as you probably have noted, I have little interest in the Diplomatic aspects as I am gong to cut off heads as soon as I can. In any event, Sid AI's will be annoyed at me the moment I see them most of the time and I will have nothing to offer them, but my head. So it is not a consideration.

    At levels like Emperor, I can go either way for a time, but I will soon be stronger than all and they will not like that, so the shelf life is not long.

    Below Emperor, I don't care how one does things as the AI is happless and cannot even make a run at me. At least Emp you can get a run away civ on another contient and they can be fun to deal with.

    "If I declare and raze they all will get mad at me and will dogpile or won't trade, even if i give away gifts for free (read it from trading guide...). I don't understand what makes computer mad at me (leading positsion, having resources I have, and ai has not and declaring upon other civs, owning its slaves and cities....)"

    It is like real life, most are going to be unhappy with those that have more than they do and will back stab if they can. This is done here by getting the government to tax them that have more than you have.

    It is completely normal, if not lamentable. So the AI can be bribe as humans can to not jump on you for a time, but eventually they have to come for you as they cannot win otherwise.

    So do not worry about it much. You discourage the dog pile by being very strong or by beating them to the punch and recruiting the others to your side.

    Sort of like a Democrat, you offer them stuff you took from someone else to placate them, it work fine. I note that republicans are doing this more and more lately.

    "It costs me producion in far away towns, making them more weaker, also if i produce defense home and move it to far away towns, I cannot develop good enough offense nor income for myself"

    I think I have said often, do not try to produce anything in those place. You maybe let them make a worker or a settler or a cannon (no barracks).

    Now they are adding to the empire not subtracting. With the help those places give, the core should be able to handle the rest. Move troops from the core to the front or any hot spots and you should be fine.
     
  14. Northen Wolf

    Northen Wolf Young Hunter

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    I gave up on my first game and been trying to do great REX phase.
    I think I did quite well also been trying to keep 2 squares between cities...

    Used Mayan javelin-throwers to destroy Americans and Zulus.(getting good amount of slaves.

    Have not built a single wonder...

    Now, What are my mistakes in this save? (Probably it is annoying to check saves, but I want to improve.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/137452/Smoke-Jaguar_of_the_Maya_900_AD.SAV
     
  15. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Try to look at today.
     
  16. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    First thing I see is that 5 tiles near the capitol that do not have a road. In fact many tiles have no road. One tile is dead and can never be used.

    Forgive me, if I get confused, but would imagined I have talked about cathedrals. So why is Calakmul making one and why does it have two jokers? At least make them scientist or tax men and then no cathedral.

    You have 17 beakers at this level of research and no lib?

    I only see one place making a unit? Get rid of those obsolete units and make more cavs.

    How do you go to peace with Hiawatha owning one of your cities? This is not a far flung size 1 town, but a city?

    Still a huge hole by Bonapak and Washington, fill it with at least one town.

    I was not there so I do not know what occurred, but I do not give lux for peace that is not going to make them weaker. I only give/trade lux for a real necessity or to weak civs. Not to main rivals.

    Depending on what was going on at the start, I do not like to see so many JT units. I would make a few and kills barbs only with them nothing else, unless pressed hard.

    No need to risk a GA with the JT so soon, unless the game calls for it. That would be in a massive AWDG or a real bad AWE or Deity or Sid.
     
  17. Northen Wolf

    Northen Wolf Young Hunter

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    My capital has only one tile that has no road on it (soon more, due it is growing). Had to pump out settlers and later on military units.

    Calakmul has(had) 2 clowns due it was in civil disorder, I stopped building cathedral Changed it into library instead. Should I manage my size 12 cities so they would get extra 0 food and have taxmen or scientists?
    Should I just disband those javelin throwers, or upgrade 'em into archers?

    I have so many JT's(Javelin throwers) due that was IMO the best unit to use against USA and Zimbawe, should I have made horsmans and swordmans instead?

    I've only had 2 wars: War with America, that gave me some slaves and free area to build on and Zimbawe - they declared and I made others to pile on them.

    I have not lost a single city... Hiawatha built one city there...

    "AWDG " - Whats that?
     
  18. Aabraxan

    Aabraxan Mid-level Micromanager

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    AW=All-War. You'll often see this followed by the difficulty level, so AWDG=All-War Demigod.

    I haven't opened the save in-game, but I took a peek with CA2. Conquest is the only victory condition you've got enabled and I see 2 cities building temples and 5 building cathedrals (which means these already have temples). Lux spending is at 0%. Raising the lux slider would have been better than temples and cathedrals here, for several reasons.

    First, the lux slider is flexible. Once you build those buildings, you either pay the upkeep or sell the building. I can't see how many luxes you've got, but let's say that a good, productive war gets you two more. If you'd been using the lux slider, you might be able to lower it and put more gold in your pocket. By using buildings, you wind up with really happy citizens, but you can't lower the upkeep on those buildings. As long as you have at least as many happy citizens as unhappy, you avoid civil disorder.

    Second, I'll repeat: Conquest is the only enabled victory condition. The temples and caths are generating culture for you, but to what end? You can't win by culture in this game. So you get some happiness through the temples and caths. As for flips, go kill off any AI with enough culture to worry you. That'll stop those flips.

    On the good side, I see that you've got twice as many cities as the nearest AI that I can see. :goodjob:

    As for the clowns in Calakmul, I see that it's only 19% corrupt. There are very few absolutes in Civ, but I can't imagine any scenario under which it's a good idea to use clowns in a town with such low corruption. Raise the lux slider, hire a taxman or a scientist (if you must), but not a clown.

    And yes, size 12 cities can be managed for 0 food surplus. They won't grow before a hospital or Shakespeare's theater is built, so why waste the food. Mine a few extra tiles and scrape together a few extra shields. Honestly, I rarely build hospitals, anyway. Just let 'em get to size 12 and leave them there.
     
  19. vmxa

    vmxa Deity

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    Northen Wolf

    "My capital has only one tile that has no road on it (soon more, due it is growing). Had to pump out settlers and later on military units."

    "Does not matter to me, you cannot afford to not improve tiles in the capitol. Everyone makes settlers out of the capitol. The biggest item to me is to not have any tiles being worked that are not improved in the early game. I do not care if we are lax in the later stages of the game with more remote cities, but the start is key.

    Calakmul has(had) 2 clowns due it was in civil disorder, I stopped building cathedral Changed it into library instead. Should I manage my size 12 cities so they would get extra 0 food and have taxmen or scientists?
    Should I just disband those javelin throwers, or upgrade 'em into archers?"

    If you have jokers, reexamine what you are doing as that is probably a mistake. Better in most cases to up the lux slider or at least use them as scientist.

    I am not critical about the zero food, it depends on many things. In a core city, you may have a market a bank maybe a uni, it may be better to have all working. If you can mine instead of irrigate, then do it. I would expect that all except cows would already be in the best state. A cow I may come back at some point an mine it.

    Yup horses or sword are better. Two reason, horses have retreat, swords are harder hitters and the second reason is you will upgrade those unit, but not JT's.

    No reason to upgrade them. Maybe one or two if you expect that need to attack and the 4 attack is better. I doubt I would be using long bows to attack, much.

    "I have not lost a single city... Hiawatha built one city there..."

    I thought the name suggest it was one of yours.
     
  20. Northen Wolf

    Northen Wolf Young Hunter

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    So, what I have to learn:

    *Using luxury slider.

    It costs less than cheap temples, that increase my culture also? When is rigth time to *pump* culture? Or should I just keep garrison of 1 offense and 1 defense (or 2 defense) units, to prevent flip, in my border cities?


    *Making specialist farms out of far away cities.
    When I know, when to make spec. farm and what size should those cities be.
    Also do scientists 3 light bulbs get the bonus of library. Should I build Library in those towns. And should these towns be producing anything (Artilleries, cannons etc.)?

    *Making better unit stacks and attacking units:
    I assume: 3 swordmans 1-2 defense units, perhaps 1-2 settlers is good enough stack for one early age war? Or should stack consist only swordmen and other stack only of horsemans? Moving the settlers and def specs after the army?

    *Building buildings into towns (what goes where?)
    Should border cities have rax? (least the ones that can be used tactically for fast troop movement). Should border cities have temples? Should all cities that are producing more than 5 bulbs have library?

    My umm core (beginning cities), should it be building military units or are the buildings like bank and universities more important.

    If my core is too far away from centre of my empire, should I build forbidden palace into center and use center to produce units for attacking, while core mostly produces ships & launches naval attacks (with landing units) and core also has almost all good buildings (banks, libs,stock ex.).

    *Trade with computer and dogpile others on one computer???
    So, I should not give computer techs that I can't counter. Should sell them useless wonder techs and sell tech to all civs I can in one turn? Should I also trade luxuries (to weaker civs, that I can't reach or the ones who pay well?) & resources (more careful with trading with those).

    *Not to build wonders
    Rather than capture those?

    *Better city placement
    CxxC style, expt perhaps for core -> CxxxC?

    And pump out settlers from 1 town (capital) or two towns?
    Or perhaps use as many settlers as possible?
    and later on making like 2 workers per town? or 4 slave workers?
    Is it better to slave indu. civilization for slaves???
     

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