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What are they not trying to balance the game?

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by Pietato, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. Pietato

    Pietato Chieftain

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    How hard is it to buff Norway? Or Japan? Or Spain? Why do we have to wait 6 months for basic balance changes?
     
  2. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji Chieftain

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    They may be waiting for an expansion for these major overhauls, since new mechanics might make them more balanced (or other civs less OP).

    Japan isn't that bad (not Norway or Spain level, anyway). They have 3 half-cost districts, 2 of them almost essential for their respective victories (Holy Site and Theatre Square). Japan can pull off an interesting and fun (though probably sub-optimal) Jesuit Education CV.

    Though maybe moving Samurais to the tech tree trunk instead of a leaf tech and beefing up Electronics Factory should help.
     
    KumaChan likes this.
  3. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Japans adjacency and factories are Ok amd divine wind in his ships sails make him quite strong at sea because there is so few unit types. I would put Egypt below Japan personally.

    This buffing thing is important for MP but not at the monent for SP because you can win with them all on any map. I also find France quite limited.

    Do we really have to buff them? I love playing with bad Civ's
     
  4. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    They started balancing the game with the last patches. Buffing swordsman, nerfing industrial zones etc.
    Balancing civs will happen with an expansion, if previous titles are any indication. There is a possibility that some civs will change a lot (like France in civ 5), not just changing some numbers. I don't see too much reason to rush balancing though - and underpowered civs are not that much a problem even in multiplayer, you may be able to win with them nonetheless. Overpowered civs are much more a problem - and you constantly see games in which Sumeria, Scythia and Australia are banned.
    I also think that Japan is an ok civ. And I don't get all of the Spain bashing: sure, they aren't really great, but stronger internal trade routes are a very nice thing to have. And the +4 against civs following another religion can be nice in combination with certain beliefs. Just because the mission and the samurai are bad doesn't make the whole civ bad.
     
  5. LethalLeigh

    LethalLeigh Chieftain

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    Australia's Adjacency Needs a Nerf, maybe cut it in half and it will still be good. Kongo's Great ppl needs a Nerf also. I can't play a game with Kongo because I am sick and tied of them getting 80% of Great ppl.
    Wouldn't be so bad if you gained control of Great ppl Upgrades when capping Cities. ie - if you Cap a city where Toy merchants was used, you'd get the toys for yourself.
     
  6. kaspergm

    kaspergm Chieftain

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    Firaxis are just extremely bad at balancing, or they don't really care. Just look at Civ5, it's as if they just gave up without really trying.

    For me, Spain problem is mostly a reflection of the generally horrible unique improvements. The Mission just sucks. But the trade route bonus is very situational. I played one Spain game, continents map, and I was on a huge physical continent, towards one end. The physical continent was divided into two "continents": The one I started on, and one that consisted of (literally) 6 hexes in the exact opposite end of the physical continent. I never got to see a single bonus food or production from the unique ability in that game. :cringe:
     
  7. Valessa

    Valessa innocent

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    They never really balanced the Civilizations in CivV, so I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Although they did try in Beyond Earth, but I assume that was mostly due to the fact that one sponsor always dominated all the others in literally all fields by having really strong starting bonuses in Vanilla.
     
  8. Pietato

    Pietato Chieftain

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    I am just sick of seeing Norway and Spain demolished every game they are in.

    And I would like to use Japan fully, but they keep getting indirectly nerfed, i.e Factory nerf and Swordsman buff.
     
  9. Pietato

    Pietato Chieftain

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    Also, why is it so hard to fix Spearman?
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Pikman were a huge influence in their time and you just happily bypass their sidelined tech.
    Spearmen, not clubmen were the standard in ancient armies...yet we go bronze working for other reasons. It woukd make the tech tree far more interesting at the start if the spear got say +5 vs mounted at the start, with 1 good promo Sumeria is not such a scary force
     
  11. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    I agree to all of that. I guess they started with the swordsman and we'll see spearmen buffed in some way next.
    But as of now, spearmen have no bonus against war carts at all, since war carts are no mounted units iirc.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Ah, my bad. A bit of a misnomer in their rock paper scissors
     
  13. kamex

    kamex Chieftain

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    Whoever designed War-Carts needs to be fired. You have 100% chance of destroying your neighbor by around turn 40. Early AI Gilgamesh is also a nightmare for the same reason. Utterly broken.
     
  14. Janskey

    Janskey Chieftain

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    I think it's fine to have the civs unbalanced, as long as it's not Glorious PC Master Race mod -level of unbalanced (was in Civ V, every tile gave you 10 of every yield, it's kind of therapeutic to play like that once in a while). It gives you an additional difficulty level setting. In multiplayer, people can play with the same civ/s, which evens things out a bit.
     
  15. Bro

    Bro Chieftain

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    Japan and Norway are definetly not bad. As Victoria mentioned, Japan is very strong in island maps and his double adjacency districts are extremely good. Norway is also extremely potential in island type maps, you'll be drowning in captured builders and settlers and eventually don't know where to put them anymore. Berserker is an very underrated unit also, it's situational but can be better than a Knight once you get a couple of the melee promotions for it.
     
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  16. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji Chieftain

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    For the Spearmen, I guess making them a bit stronger should help. But Pikemen also needs to be put in the main tech tree (and get a good buff, especially against Knights and Cavalry).

    Actually, we shouldn't have "main tech tree" or "leaf techs", except for the Information Era ones. And even those "end leaves" must have a Mars Colony part attached to them.
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    A leaf for pikemen is just meh, but then horsemen were historically naff until stirrups unless you lived on the horse.
     
  18. ShakaKhan

    ShakaKhan Chieftain

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    I think Japan is fine the way they are, I'd rank them about 2/3 of the way down, which is to say they are just below average. I think Egypt, America, England, France, Spain, and Norway are definitely below them in the rankings, and an argument could be made for others. And it's all because of just two bonuses, having 3 of the districts be half priced and having all districts (well, all of them that get any kind of adjacency bonus) have the extra adjacency bonus. The three districts that they get for 1/2 price coincide with 3 out of the four victory conditions - theater for culture, encampment for domination, and holy site for religious. I'm not sure if this was intended but it seems so, so it also seems logical that they should get campuses (for the other victory condition) for 1/2 price as well, which may be a little boost that they should get. Also it would help if the Samarai had a better upgrade path, which is the problem with most of the UU that are additional units instead of replacements.
     
  19. Jaybe

    Jaybe Chieftain Supporter

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    I haven't had problems with Kongo recently (on Prince difficulty, huge continents) because they have been on the same continent and I've always made it a priority to rub them out (as Rome).

    Edit: epic speed with Time X All In One 1.33 mod
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  20. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji Chieftain

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    Well, if the mod doesn't change civ abilities, Kongo gets very powerful if it spawns in another landmass.
    He gets many GPs, which means he has a good cultural game. His improved Neighborhoods allows for more people and more science. He also keeps their units more or less up-to-date, meaning his cities will shoot stronger and have more defense.
     

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