zhugejingqi
Chieftain
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I didn't find the joke funny at all. It shows an official abandonment of further balancing adjustments.
"What are you most excited for?"--BESIDES turning off Cliffs of Dover
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Wielki Hegemon
Emperor
Or feedback quality. Some people on social media are more focused on likes for a joke comment rather than real worthy response...
I don't like the Cliffs of Dover because of the yields, but lots of wonders have yields that make them rather unworkable. Something else about them that bugs folks?
At any rate, I don't see the joke as indicating an abandonment of balance passes. Rather, I think the general demeanor of Firaxis is to treat their properties--whether it's Civ or XCom--as toys to do silly, cute things with (vampires, rock bands, golf courses). If you don't have the goal of a compelling strategy game in mind, then you aren't thinking about balance all that hard.
At any rate, I don't see the joke as indicating an abandonment of balance passes. Rather, I think the general demeanor of Firaxis is to treat their properties--whether it's Civ or XCom--as toys to do silly, cute things with (vampires, rock bands, golf courses). If you don't have the goal of a compelling strategy game in mind, then you aren't thinking about balance all that hard.
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
I guess is the empty grass it has that gives the idea you can build there but you can't (apart from the crappy stats).
But yeah, I don't understand why they don't take a spreadsheet, compare everything and make some tweaks to be ROUGHLY on the same level. It's ok that some are better, others fill some niche, but outright bad compared to most should be tweaked.
Yeah, like making X-Com a buddy cop movie.
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8housesofelixir
Emperor
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IMHO the ultimate problem with Cliffs of Dover is that it really, really looks like you can improve them - as it looks so flat and empty, because it is basically two grassland hexes with cliffs - but in reality you can't. This creates a gap between visual and reality.
If the two grassland hexes have a rocky texture and don't give you the illusion of you can/need to build something on it, people would more likely to say "it is as meh as Gobustan or Lake Retba" rather than "get out of my game".
If the two grassland hexes have a rocky texture and don't give you the illusion of you can/need to build something on it, people would more likely to say "it is as meh as Gobustan or Lake Retba" rather than "get out of my game".
Deadly Dog
Prince
Haha and here I am settling beside them in my Menelek II game, quite late, and getting an instant national park (2/3 tiles north of one of the cliffs were mountains), and also faith (Earth Goddess) and playing right into my land-based Tourism Victory...
As one of the "passable" Wonders as well Kupe doesn't cringe at this better than a mountain-locked Everest really.
Should it yield food? If it did so historically, I'd say then yes. If not, well, there's ways around that.
I remember a teacher using the Cliffs of Dover to give a colourful proof that the Earth is round, maybe it should give a unit enhancement or a GS/GG point to its city.
As one of the "passable" Wonders as well Kupe doesn't cringe at this better than a mountain-locked Everest really.
Should it yield food? If it did so historically, I'd say then yes. If not, well, there's ways around that.
I remember a teacher using the Cliffs of Dover to give a colourful proof that the Earth is round, maybe it should give a unit enhancement or a GS/GG point to its city.
Yeah, like if the tiles were improvable, so that you could either settle a city on them, or at least start laying farms on them, that would go a long way. And as you say, at least Gobustan and Retba look super unique on the map so you can excuse them. Dover looks like it should be improvable, so they stick out.
But the yields are just bad. I mean, they're 3 culture/2 gold, which is basically what Paititi gives additional to each adjacent tile. Again, they're useful for national parks, or for throwing holy sites near them, but otherwise, they just don't give enough. Even if they had a more unique secondary ability like some other wonders would give you at least something special on them. So like, have them give a major adjacency to nearby harbors, or even like have them give a free lighthouse to nearby harbors or something like that, and suddenly they at least get interesting.
hhhhhh
Prince
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Firaxis, have you researched Google Maps? I see farmable land on these here tiles. At least 1 food unimproved, and improvable further by builder-built-farms.
Hmmm never thought about looking at this from this scale. People told me landslide and erosion happens on it and it's really feeble so that kinda explains why it cannot be improved for me. I think improving its yield is the wrong direction, and it's pointless to make it as good as the Great Barrier Reef or Paititi.
A good change would be, making the Cliff of Dover a sea based wonder that has to be adjacent to two tiles of cliffs - the cliffs can still be improved as they are not "wonder tiles" and the wonder tiles now lie over the coast tiles, will gain the 1 food 1 gold thus yield is also improved. (And lighthouse and shipyard will make it better!)
I can't imagine how quickly people would kill it if there's an elimination thread for National Wonders. That will be hilarious.
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8housesofelixir
Emperor
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Make it coastal is a good idea, however as far as I can tell the current "cliff" visual is land based, making a sea based cliff requires some clever graphical design and model changes - a similar difficulty goes for making a wonder tile improvable. Adding a food yield/adjacency to harbors is much easier (although the devs already chose to buff the appeal bonus when tweak the Cliffs in the recent patch).
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Pietato
Platonic Perfection
Wait...someone at FX made this joke?
If they know it, and the other ~6 suck, why not BALANCE THEM.
If they know it, and the other ~6 suck, why not BALANCE THEM.
acluewithout
Deity
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Oh come on. It’s just a joke. Lighten up.
If we're really going to parse statements like this this, then I think all FXS are saying is that they know people think how they just rebalanced COD sucks.
They probably will rebalance them again, but it'll have to queue up with any other balance changes or updates they're working on. They're hardly going to do a Cliffs of Dover Hotfix.
Yeah, I'm okay with some Nat Wonders being weak. COD is weak, even with tweaks, although sometimes it works out that I can use the culture to rush some civic. And, you know, you can still put a Holy Site next to it, it still gives you era score when you find it, and it still triggers eurekas etc. Still. It looks nice.
If FXS were going to buff it, I'd suggest something like it gives additional loyalty to Cities that have of its tiles. Or it gives improved adjacencies to Harbours and Commercial Hubs, or something like that.
Honestly. This really isn't a bid deal.
Pietato
Platonic Perfection
Cliffs of Dover is worse than normal tiles a lot of the time...
CrabHelmet
King
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The Cliffs of Dover shoudn't be a natural wonder anyway and I have lived near them. If you're up close they're a sort of weird green off-tinge, they're not actually that white unless it is very sunny and you're at a distance. There's a lot more impressive geographic sites in this world...
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