What are your strategies for huge games?

salty mud

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On a huge map, there is a whole lot more land up for grabs. Do you rush to get this land quickly? Or do you prefer to take your time since there is so much land and so many resources available?

Some victory conditions also seem better than others for huge maps. Science victories must be easier. Lots of (commerce) cities means a lot of science, coupled with some production cities and a spaceship will be made in no time. Domination and conquest, on the other hand, must be exponentially harder.
 
I definitely want to grab that land and REX more and more. Going Oracle isn't as good as usual, though Oracle -> Code of Laws for ORG/Holy Roman leaders can help recover from maintenance costs. Going for The Great Lighthouse isn't usually as viable, but a Huge Archipelago map or island-heavy map would make trade economy strong and fun. If you're not boxed in and have plenty of land to go for, Cottage economy can do wonders. I'd try to find 1 good GP farm city, the rest all about cottage or trade economy cities so I can make as many as fast as possible. Get up to 15 - 20 cities, then dial it back so you can tech heavier. Great Library, the Academy, and Bureaucracy become more and more useless compared to Standard games where you can only fit up to 9 cities.

Specialist economy still works, but if I don't have stone nearby to grab the fast Pyramids -> Representation, I don't think about this much.

Domination and Conquest aren't harder at all, just take more time and micromanaging . Once you start conquering and get up to 30+ cities, your production makes you a monster that has near 0% chance of losing as long as you're watching for opponents going for Culture/Space wins. They can barely even try to win with Diplomacy because of your large population amounting to so many votes.

Most wonders aren't worth going for (in general, but especially here) because you have more opponents on Huge maps who are more likely to be going for them. Fail gold is still nice though. So if I'm not going for wonders and haven't stopped to focus on a certain tech path I want to abuse, I want more cities.

I feel like Huge maps are more fun and easier than Standard. You have more trading partners and have lower maintenance and civic costs, so you can expand up to a great number of cities sooner with smaller risk of being punished. Warmongers are a big worry in these games, because they can also get to 30+ cities for that mad, mad production.
 
You can REX like crazy, especially on a script like hemispheres. I normally have at least 15 cities by 1 AD. I can get a lot more if there are commerce resources or I'm ORG/FIN.

Normal strategies are sub optimal on huge maps, imo. I usually run a very low slider for most of the game, so an early academy doesn't do a lot. It's also weakened by the fact that I will have multiple cottages cities rather than a single bureau capital. I prefer to save my GS to bulb techs.

I forget about most wonders. I will occasionally chop out MoM if I have marble and went fast calendar. Otherwise, just take land and then capture wonders later.

Early wars are rarely worth it. Unless the AI cities are exceptionally better than your own, just take free land and let the AI develop cottages and chop jungle for you.

Conquest and domination take longer, but it's more fun, imo. In my Elizabeth game, I'm invading Shaka's continent with redcoats and cannons. He's got four vassals and a disgusting amount of units. I have seventy cities on my own continent that are spamming units like mad. I'll eventually win because he is far behind in tech, but it's pretty crazy.

I recommend playing on marathon. Before railroads, it can take units more than ten turns to move across a continent. That's way too slow at normal speed.

Warmonger stacks will be so big that you either need a big stack of your own or you have to get them to friendly and keep them there. I've had Ragnar sign peace with Hatty and then immediately show up on my doorstep with 30+ units in the classical era. Machinery and construction are highly valuable to give you efficient ways to deal with big stacks.

Slavery and drafting are really good when you have a ton of cities. You can whip every city once or twice and suddenly have a huge army.

State property workshop spam is a nice way to reduce the tedium of managing many cities. Build wealth/research until you get a key tech then spam some units and go back to wealth.

My preferred settings are hemispheres, huge, 3 continents, and 17 AI. This let's me delay the crazy diplo situations until after optics. It also makes it fun to see who pulls ahead on the other continents. Sometimes it's shaka and other times there's a Gandhi/Mansa love fest that gets lib at like 500 AD.
 
My preferred settings are custom continents,one per team,5 AI,raging barbarians,unrestricted leaders,Netherlands with Louis XIV,conquest or spaceship,emperor+,normal speed..Where is 'the law',huge maps=15-16 AI;)? Stonehenge,Great Wall,Pyramids,Representation,Shewadagon Paya(no free religion earlier AI),religious path to let them without religion,50-60 or more cities,many wonders.Invasions after Rifling and Steel,bribes to incite wars between AI players using 'brothers in faith'.
Yes,in huge maps is more fun.
 
I just remembered that great wall is extremely powerful on huge maps. It's impossible to efficiently fog bust so much land. One time, my neighbor built the wall and I nearly died to barbs. It was seriously like 4+ archers every few turns from all directions.
 
Well, it really depends on settings. A huge map with 18 Civs isn’t necessarily going to have tons of land to expand into. Play a game with a DLL that allows 24 or more AIs, and it’s even more crowded (unless you have a map script with oversize maps).

If there’s lots of empty land, Great Wall becomes very helpful. Stonehenge becomes something to consider if you have Stone and trees to chop. As InoVa said, Bureaucracy and other features/improvements that just impact one city become less meaningful, unless you get them very early. Great People are used for Golden Ages, so MoM and Taj Mahal are even more useful. You’ll still spend time in Bureaucracy, just less time than you would in most games.

I tend to play huge and more-than-huge maps the way I used to play Civ2: Always be expanding (once you have Currency). If you aren’t building Settlers, you should be taking your neighbour’s cities. Fail to do that, and you’ll wind up 10 cities behind the AI leaders by Astronomy.

The real enemy of dom/conquest games is tedium.
 
You can REX like crazy, especially on a script like hemispheres. I normally have at least 15 cities by 1 AD. I can get a lot more if there are commerce resources or I'm ORG/FIN.

Normal strategies are sub optimal on huge maps, imo. I usually run a very low slider for most of the game, so an early academy doesn't do a lot. It's also weakened by the fact that I will have multiple cottages cities rather than a single bureau capital. I prefer to save my GS to bulb techs.

I forget about most wonders. I will occasionally chop out MoM if I have marble and went fast calendar. Otherwise, just take land and then capture wonders later.

Early wars are rarely worth it. Unless the AI cities are exceptionally better than your own, just take free land and let the AI develop cottages and chop jungle for you.

Conquest and domination take longer, but it's more fun, imo. In my Elizabeth game, I'm invading Shaka's continent with redcoats and cannons. He's got four vassals and a disgusting amount of units. I have seventy cities on my own continent that are spamming units like mad. I'll eventually win because he is far behind in tech, but it's pretty crazy.

I recommend playing on marathon. Before railroads, it can take units more than ten turns to move across a continent. That's way too slow at normal speed.

Warmonger stacks will be so big that you either need a big stack of your own or you have to get them to friendly and keep them there. I've had Ragnar sign peace with Hatty and then immediately show up on my doorstep with 30+ units in the classical era. Machinery and construction are highly valuable to give you efficient ways to deal with big stacks.

My preferred settings are hemispheres, huge, 3 continents, and 17 AI. This let's me delay the crazy diplo situations until after optics. It also makes it fun to see who pulls ahead on the other continents. Sometimes it's shaka and other times there's a Gandhi/Mansa love fest that gets lib at like 500 AD.

Your games sound a lot like mine, SnipedSoul. Every city site with a river gets cottaged.

I’ve turned off vassals and turned on PAs. Warlike AIs grow even bigger without the ability to vassal their enemies, and eventually they buddy up and become an 80-city team.

Marathon is much too long for me at this point.
 
I play exclusively huge maps (usually huge epic). The only way I've won on emperor+ is fast expansion usually via war to get the gold from city capture. What ends up happening if you don't aggressively war is that some leader will end up having a huge empire and start teching like crazy late in the game and it becomes hard to win though I guess you can play for cultural victory. I don't care for cultural victories though so I never go for that. I will note I also play with no vassals that also makes early wars more important because you can't just capitulate big guys quickly down the road.

In terms of other strategies.. I generally like to get the oracle if I have good commerce early (e.g. i can get to priesthood quickly), I rarely build an academy early (prefer to bulb) unless I have a crazy strong city to build it in, and if I don't have an easy target to battle I will rex like crazy and pray I don't get DoW'ed. Generally though, I find I need a BC war to win domination or space with my settings;

(Huge/Epic/11 civs/continents, no tech brokering, no vassals, no barbs, no huts, no events)
 
Great Library, the Academy, and Bureaucracy become more and more useless compared to Standard games where you can only fit up to 9 cities
Have to disagree with that ;)
When you expand to 15-20 cities in the BCs/early ADs, maintenance is gonna temporarily kill your research rate. Bulbs are required to get back into the game tech-wise, and Bureaucracy is better than ever because your main bottleneck is commerce (maintenance cost only makes Bureaucracy "bad" when you have 40+ cities and not ORG, esp on huge maps). Plus having a lot of land means it's easier to find a city with good food/forests for GLib. I would also advise against the Mids unless the land you have is low on commerce (no rivers), in which case Rep specialists wil be needed to keep the economy afloat anyways.
 
Have to disagree with that ;)
When you expand to 15-20 cities in the BCs/early ADs, maintenance is gonna temporarily kill your research rate. Bulbs are required to get back into the game tech-wise, and Bureaucracy is better than ever because your main bottleneck is commerce (maintenance cost only makes Bureaucracy "bad" when you have 40+ cities and not ORG, esp on huge maps). Plus having a lot of land means it's easier to find a city with good food/forests for GLib. I would also advise against the Mids unless the land you have is low on commerce (no rivers), in which case Rep specialists wil be needed to keep the economy afloat anyways.

Temporarily weak research doesn't matter in huge.. when you have a big empire you'll eventually catch up in the end game, and the game usually makes it to modern times. Most cities usually wins in huge from my experience. The bigger mistake I have found is giving up expansion and war for tech rate. You'll keep up in the middle ages, but when modern times comes, Justinian or Zara is gonna have 40 cities and tech everything in 3 turns.
 
I think weak research always matters. If you aim to win by conquest, you shouldn't be looking to see modern times. Better is to reach your chosen military tech asap and capitulate all your enemies, on any map size. Certainly, on huge/normal speed things are a bit different, but I'd assume people choosing huge maps also play on slower speeds.
 
Yup..you can found more cities, or conquer them. Research & bulbs help getting better units for that, and you will get the chance of taking more than you could have settled (or taken with worse units).
I doubt huge maps change those principles.
 
@gaash2
On Huge/Marathon if you play well you'll reach the modern era while the AI still has medieval units - and this implies a strong tech rate throughout the game, which is supported by Bureaucracy + GPP in the mid-game. On Huge/Normal things are different as it will be much harder to keep up in tech, so you'll need Bureaucracy + GPP to outpace the AI. Both ways GPP and Bureau (if you have a capital with strong commerce) are the best way to go (in general, you'll find exceptions ofc)
On the lower difficulties you can get away with neglecting GPP/skipping Bureau, but on the higher difficulties (on deity mostly) you just can't stay at 0% research for 50 turns, especially if you care whatsoever about finish date ;)
 
Plenty of ways to win .. I guess since I play with vassals off, it takes much longer to kill the AI vs just crushing a few cities and capitulating them. I also play continents not pangea, maybe I'm not good enough (I play emperor or immortal), but I have never won before at least tanks, and usually I get at least a few turns with modern armor. Being ahead in tech is my game plan in general, but my focus is to be ahead later in the game where the beaker counts required for techs are huge, being behind when techs are only 1000 beakers isn't that big an issue, especially when it's geared towards large beaker gains later on. Also I would note you can be behind in tech but still ahead in military tech which helps matters.
 
My gigamap sized games with 20+ Civs have always lasted deep into the modern era (Future era in some cases).

I'll freely admit that better players could probably produce better results, faster wins. But at my skill level, if I stop expanding to work on my research rate, I'll be dead by 1700.
 
Have to disagree with that ;)
When you expand to 15-20 cities in the BCs/early ADs, maintenance is gonna temporarily kill your research rate. Bulbs are required to get back into the game tech-wise, and Bureaucracy is better than ever because your main bottleneck is commerce (maintenance cost only makes Bureaucracy "bad" when you have 40+ cities and not ORG, esp on huge maps). Plus having a lot of land means it's easier to find a city with good food/forests for GLib. I would also advise against the Mids unless the land you have is low on commerce (no rivers), in which case Rep specialists wil be needed to keep the economy afloat anyways.

Bureaucracy without an academy is not very good, imo. I rarely play philo leaders and I need all my GS for key bulbs. Academy only boosts my total tech rate by <10% anyway. My capital often also doesn't have many well-developed cottages since cramming cities next to the capital to share cottages results in minimal land claiming and massive maintenance from # of cities if I do decide to get more land.

I almost never get TGL because it always goes at like 500 BC while I'm trying to get currency.

I agree that mids are not very good on huge maps. I can't afford to work many specialists because I need production for more settlers or building wealth/fail gold wonders. The happiness bonus from rep is largely wasted when you have 30+ cities. Even the beakers aren't that great since trade routes alone will net huge beakers when you run a high slider. Getting enough gold to maintain a high slider is the challenge on huge maps.

Yup..you can found more cities, or conquer them. Research & bulbs help getting better units for that, and you will get the chance of taking more than you could have settled (or taken with worse units).
I doubt huge maps change those principles.

If you play on huge maps with multiple continents, it's a delicate balance between expansion, tech rate, and conquest. A domination win is impossible before astronomy, so you need to get there in a reasonable time to avoid seeing infantry by the time you invade the mansa musa & gandhi peaceful tech trading love-fest. You also need to control most of your own continent because vassals are terrible at assisting with intercontinental warfare. Invading a continent where Shaka has 5 vassals and 70+ cities helping produce defenders is extremely difficult unless you have 40+ cities of your own.

A typical game for me on a 3 continent huge/marathon map goes something like this:

1: Peacefully expand until all the decent land is settled. I usually have 25 - 30 cities before I run out of room.

2: Declare war to get a shrine (usually 50+ gpt!!). This is usually with trebs.

3: Use shrine income to absorb economic shock of capturing many cities.

4: Get optics and bulb astronomy for intercontinental trade routes (very powerful when you have tons of cities).

5. Skip paper, edu, lib path to go guilds -> gunpowder -> chemistry GS bulb -> steel. I don't build that many cottages, so chemistry is far stronger than printing press.

6: Transition to workshop spam economy.

7: Conquer my continent with muskets, trebs, galleons, and frigates while teching steel. The speed of ships is very nice on huge maps.

8: Conquer rest of my continent with cannons.

9: Begin researching toward Printing press -> Scientific Method -> Communism (PP and Sci Meth can be bulbed!)

10: Assemble massive armada filled with cannons, muskets, and leftover medieval units.

11: Invade another continent.

12: Adopt state property to save 700+ gpt. Tech rate will explode at this point. It shouldn't take too many workshop spammed cities to maintain 100% research slider.

13: Keep warring while teching toward either artillery or bombers/tanks, depending on what I feel like using that day.

14: Invade last continent and win the game.
 
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My own noob experiences on Huge/Pangaea/18 civ shows a few things that really stand out compared to Normal speed/size.

-Barbs give the AIs a lot more trouble (granted I play on only Noble/Monarch and the AI doesn't get free units), even without Raging Barbs on (which normally still only slows them down a bit more in regular size/speed). I guess because they spawn at a relatively higher rate to the AI unit production, or they move from the fog that much faster due to Marathon settings, and the vast amounts of fogged land multiply it as even as more cities are settled (bumping up the barb spawn) as the more prevalent fog remains for a much longer time. I couldn't see it happening in real-time, but the end game logs had them losing cities left and right to barbs in the early phase :D. Sometimes the same AI multiple times in the same spot! It would be even worse with fewer civs and more land, such as a bigger script (Terra is larger right?). This made the Great Wall actually hilariously effective every game I played, and I didn't even get it every time.

-Worker steals are like 2000% or some ridiculous amount more effective. AIs can't do much of anything but spam archers without improved tiles, making chokes insanely good too. Workers are are so expensive on Marathon without improved tiles in place already to speed them compared to how much return you can get by having them.. AIs don't always go warrior first even if they don't have one (or they run it off instead of garrisoning it either way), and will still explore with their initial one. Hunting AIs are even more screwed. With the disparity of movement to build time, warrior first starts are pretty powerful so you can subjugate neighbors. I did so in every game I played on Marathon, killing a couple outright and stagnating a couple more (yeah I realize this doesn't translate to higher difficulties). I randomly rolled Inca in my last one on Monarch, and killed outright 5 AIs with Quecha spam before deciding to try to utilize some of that extra land.

-Because of the higher value of workers/worker turns and early aggression giving more room, I found both chops and cottages to be more effective. Especially combined with how much better worker stealing is. Chopping is obvious since you lose comparatively less time by only adding 1 worker turn to a 9 turn chop instead of 1 turn to a 3 turn chop (11% vs. 33% share), but cottaging seemed a lot better since expanding much more was on the table. One good cottage city can pay for a couple others itself. I don't normally put so much emphasis to cottages (I don't like early cottage strats, bigger fan of production or GP focus and of mass expand play) on Normal/Standard on them unless Financial and the land is conducive, while on Marathon/Huge I was using them left and right since there was less pressure to build a lot of early units with those citizen turns anyway, so I might as well grow cottages

I didn't find conquering to be much different except that with the unit speed advantage and quicker tech rate by abusing more land/more met civs it was coming MUCH earlier (like 800-1000AD Dom wins, my normal self-imposed goal is by the 250 turn/1700 mark). Turning vassaling off would probably do a lot to curtail that, as well as tech brokering when you have upwards of 10 partners to shop around with. I had money hand over fist after Currency.
 
peacefully expanding to 25-30 cities? Are you playing the same game as us? Good land is gone by 10-15 cities if you don't go to war, and even if not, you are getting DoW'ed 90% of the time if you expand fast enough to build 25-30 cities while there's still land on your continent without war.
 
This thread needs a save so that we know what we are even discussing. Otherwise everything is just too vague.
 
If I post a k-mod save, would everyone be able to play it? If not, hemispheres, 3 continents, and low sea levels are my normal settings.
 
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