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What are your "unpopular" opinions about Civ6?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Krajzen, Feb 24, 2019.

  1. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    Nothing against you being critical. Wasn't even singling you out; you responded to my unpopular take. I'll not say I wasn't expecting a response, but it wasn't targeted from me, if that makes sense.

    Regardless, of course Civilisation refers to a general timeline. But the events within it can happen in a different sequence to our timeline, with factions who did not enjoy dominance enjoying that in their place. An "empire" is a constructed thing, usually based on a very direct application of might making right. It's only science fiction that tends to explore (purely) technological or religious empires (and even as a contrived example, the Borg were very reliant on might makes right despite the particulars of the techno-organic assimilation). Priest, a movie I rewatched last night (good fun action movie to watch a bit mindlessly) has what I'd consider a more religious "empire" (was more of a last-bastion-of-humanity thing), and even that used a militia to enforce the law.

    I mean, I'm happy for more variance in Civilisation in this regard. For all its faults, I greatly enjoyed Beyond Earth, and the different thematic victories despite all being clicker races were styled very nicely. A more insiduous / on-the-surface "peaceful" kind of religious victory would be a neat subversion (though I still prefer Civ 6 in this regard compared to previous games - again, perhaps an unpopular opinion, hah). Applying that to culture might be a bit trickier to get the image right; Firaxis' combat-proxy choices are probably to a) link the various types of warfare thematically and b) to avoid getting too deep down into specific real-world parallels.

    That said, I'm failing to see the relevance to my arguments made previously. Maybe there isn't meant to be, I'm happy to keep on tangents like this.
     
    MooFreaky likes this.
  2. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    I know it's bold but I do think this is an important thing to have, most wrt to research and civics. It's a careful job to balance - we don't want the civ equivalent of mario kart's blue shells - but I do think a very simple 3 prong philosophy would work:
    1. How fast should an average civ play through the game?
    2. How fast should a civ ahead of average play through the game?
    3. How fast should a civ behind the average play through the game?

    For 1, we adjust the base tech cost of the tree. This is how we make era progression and everything sync.
    For 2, we put in research brakes. I personally think that players' science should be monotonic; that is, more science will always help you tech faster, but it may not always be 1:1 like it is now. For example, any tech ahead of the "world era" (Thanks for the measuring stick, R&F!) becomes increasingly expensive, like 25% for the first column ahead, 50% for the second column ahead, etc. This sounds drastic, but in practice this just keeps a player with a medium advantage (Up to 1.5x science over avg) within an era of the world.
    For 3, we put in rubber bands. This could be a research rate boost to techs behind the world era, escalating like the brakes in 2). This keeps civs with a medium disadvantage (2/3 of avg science) within an era of the world.

    So even this very simple change has now constrained most civs to be with a ~2 era band. The player who balances all his districts - say half his cities have a campus - versus the player who spams campus in all cities, will no longer result in an auto win for Korea. But you cannot just never build campuses and expect to succeed, either.
     
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  3. Morningcalm

    Morningcalm Keeper of Records

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    Re: rock bands, the main problem isn't that they are bought with faith, but that conceptually holy sites are one of the only sources of faith (unless you're Mali and have songs of the Jeli from the desert which tie in far more thematically to faith purchases of rock bands later). If faith was generated from more non-religion-focused sources than natural wonders, then spending faith on naturalists and rock bands would make more conceptual sense. (Even though I do not doubt that Christian rock bands tie in far more to faith from holy sites than my post otherwise suggests.)
     
    SammyKhalifa likes this.
  4. Stilgar08

    Stilgar08 Chieftain

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    Ok, here's my 2cents:
    Eurocentrism or not? Who the hell cares? Gimme a cool Mix and I'm fine!

    I like Georgia!
    I CAN win on deity but it's just not fun!
    The game is far too easy to win Nevertheless I love it.
    FXS: UI: Some omissions are unbearable especially when its about presenting Information. A game that NEEDS mods is not finished...
    Gossip STILL reveals information not yet discovered by the player... Minor thing but :aargh:
    Never played CiV without vox populi? :p
     
  5. kaspergm

    kaspergm Warlord

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    Yes, this is exactly what I want, techs and civics should grow progressively more expensive the further ahead of current game era you go, to prohibit beelining.
     
    Sostratus likes this.
  6. MisterBoomBoom

    MisterBoomBoom Chieftain

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    Kongo a cultural King?
    'Merica is totally "meh"
    When I think French leadership the first name that pops into my mind is...
     
    Fluphen Azine likes this.
  7. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    I used to think they were like germany in that it's hard to do them well with how many ways you could represent them. But I think this iteration of germany is darn near perfect (I still want my Panzer instead of the Uboat!)
    There's hope for the future.

    Ever since civ5 when I really started to get into the game (although I enjoyed playing 4 despite sucking) I have been trying to work out how to break the back of King Science Spam. In a way that is fun, organic, intuitive, and doesn't limit playstyle artificially like Civ5's per city penalty did. The reason I like the rubber band/soft brake mechanic is because it's agnostic to whether we have flat yield campuses, per pop and +% buildings like civ5, or that goofy commerce slider from 4.

    I don't think it is right that neglecting everything else just to spam as much science as you can is the game winner in every civ game for the last decade. [It's very hard to solve with the fact that the tech tree exists, I don't blame FXS.]
     
    acluewithout and MisterBoomBoom like this.
  8. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

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    I prefer civ 5's "permanent but more significant" social policies to civ 6's "you can change them but they are mostly just random boosts" civic cards. This is generally speaking, I realize that civ 5's social policy trees had some balance issues. But I don't like having to constantly micro my cards to feel like I'm doing well. I also like the "finish the tree" bonuses in civ 5 becuase it makes it feel a bit more cohesive and strategic to me vs just randomly selecting whatever works best at the time.

    I also prefer civ 5's graphics/artstyle to 6's phone game style, particularly leader screens. However 6 has great animations for the leaders, and I don't HATE 6's style, I just prefer 5's.
     
  9. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Chieftain

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    How about the science costs of techs rises by 10% for every tech you are missing from the previous era (or maybe from 2 eras ago)?
     
  10. Sostratus

    Sostratus Warlord

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    The reason I chose to focus on being ahead/behind of the world era is that the world era should describe where most civs are, and it is clearly communicated through the golden/dark age system.

    The downside of doing it based on missing techs (or even gating future eras by forcing you to have so many techs from the previous era) is that it just changes the order, but not the rate, of tech progression. The problem is that I am generating 150 science when you are making 100, and thus I will get every tech faster; not that I am beelining certain techs. Beelining, if deemed an issue, can be solved by adding more requirements to the tech tree. This would also make the concept of leaf techs unworkable, which I think have merit. I guess I was aiming to be agnostic to the tech tree itself, and more that it exists. Making people research past stuff before future stuff doesn't help slow down the tech leader, it makes everyone research stuff in a certain order.

    Like I said, it's a tough issue. I like to think my 3 point plan could tackle it (see up a couple posts) but it may well have big downsides I haven't thought of.
     
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  11. MrRadar

    MrRadar Chieftain

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    Well, my opinion is, that given present development and post-development support trends, Civ 6 will never ever give me such thrill as Civ 4 did, where playing on my competitive difficulty level, AI constantly keeps me on my toes and even when I manage to sort of get ahead, I still feel its hot breathing on my neck and have to watch out on every step I make. There aren't meaningful difficulty levels left and victories in Civ 6 feel rather hollow.
     
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  12. Navelgazer

    Navelgazer Chieftain

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    I mostly play the game on ocean-heavy maps and would prefer rankings that do the same to those that assume Pangea or even Continents.
     
  13. The googles do nothing

    The googles do nothing Chieftain

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    More then half the issues people have with Civ 6 have been fixed with mods.

    The best version of Civ is Civ 2.
     
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  14. Odinn21

    Odinn21 Chieftain

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    I'm a casual player and I can not enjoy Civ6 with this exact reason. The game makes me feel like studying. Not gaming.

    I love district mechanics. I love not being able construct every single wonder in one city. These were the major changes I hoped after Civ5. Now I can't go back to Civ5, because I love these. But I can't enjoy Civ6 because there are so many types of mechanics.
     
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  15. Doclea

    Doclea Chieftain

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    1. Less gaps in units tree( or devs should change unit looks if u enter new era, for example musketman would look different trough eras.. so u can have napoleonic like infrantry and late 19 century ones without inserting new unit)
    2.Eurocentric representation suits my hopes of getting Yugoslavia as late game civ with Tito as its reresentative...tho i know that would never happen. I am aware that Balkan is always represented with must ones like Greece and Ottomans and Byzantium, but i really think that one unified south slav state is our only hope of getting representated as a unique civ as we really are(Polish or Russians are kind of similar bit still much different). We even lost city states from Civ V (Belgrade and Ragusa).
    3. Graphics are to cartoony and i dont like wonders minifilms cause i prefered the old version with beautiful art.
    4. Also district kind off make the cities look too large and make map smaller, they should abandon adjancency bonuses and make one tile cities like in other civs. But they can make another screen that shows city interior with room for building wonders and districtis(and wonders per cities would be limited then). That way map would be much larger and there would be more nature and it wont be so overcrowded with stuff which i dont like.
    5. Also they could invent something like loose political border with new civic or somethin. So based on your culture your civ can have the tight border with tile you allready have and loose border with tiles you claim to be yours. So map can allways look like its allready divided between empires, instead of having late eras with big pockets of unclaimed land. All new mechanics could come with that inovation.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  16. legalizefreedom

    legalizefreedom Inefficiency Expert

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    I don't care for the builder mechanic. I much prefer the workers from previous titles.
     
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  17. Bradypus

    Bradypus Chieftain

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    I agree. I too prefer permanent bonuses. One of the most fun bonus selections for me is selecting a pantheon. Precisely because it's permanent.
     
  18. Pistol90

    Pistol90 Chieftain

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    Game still isnt interesting after industrial age ... there is no way you can lose game in that point if you are in at least in top 5 (and I always play on Diety).

    There should be SIGNIFICANT impact of happines and era you are in on Science/Production/Culture/Gold/Faith/Units combat strenght - Everything per turn ... if you are in golden age + 30% to all, two times in normal age -10%, dark age -40% .... and make it harder to keep loyalty and happiness.

    Then you would know game isnt over if you are in front or lacking behind.

    Most depresing for me is that all those mechanics are in game, but Firefix simply is to affraid to make them important. There are no even mods for something like this. I remember when they announce Rise&Fall I was thinking thats it (what I am talking above) , and then they said - but if you are in dark age there are powerfull policies, it only impact you loyalty etc ... it was clear in that moment they dont want to make challenging game.
     
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  19. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Civ VI should be ported to Android.

    It is the one most popular operating system in the world (more than Windows even).

    Steam (including Windows), Mac, iOS, and Switch are not enough.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2019
  20. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Chieftain

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    Too much budget goes into art, animation and voice acting. If all that development time went into coding a challenging AI that does not rely on bonuses to be good, this game would be fun.
     
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