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What causes extreme warmonger penalty?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by BARBEERIAN, Feb 10, 2015.

  1. BARBEERIAN

    BARBEERIAN Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    I'm curious what causes the extreme warmonger penalty when taking a city. I expect it when I'm ruthlessly going for dom and taking a civs last city but in my current game it happened in a situation that didn't really make sense.

    Here's the situation, playing Immortal FWIW. My continent was me (Spain), Japan, England, India. So Oda was warmongering it up and really starting to pose a threat. He captured one of Indias cities and burnt another one to the ground. He also took over CS (not allied with India, he just DoW'd it). So at this point he has 5 cities, 3 of his own, an Indian city, and a CS. England, India, and myself denounce him, then England and I DoW him. I take his capital, burn one of his cities, liberate the Indian city, then I go to take his city and save the CS for last so I can liberate it and erase my warmonger penalty. Now I didn't check what the penalty for taking his city, at this point I just assumed it would be major. However, as I go to raze his city I notice when I moused over raze that I picked up the extreme warmonger penalty for taking this city. So fine whatever I go to liberate the CS and it's only a major liberation bonus so everyone but England hates me. I was kinda like are you effing kidding me? I take out a blatant warmonger and I'm the one who gets the extreme warmonger penalty. Ghandi denounced then DoW's me about a dozen turns after I just saved his hide and liberated his city. Thanks bud. Anyway I'm really wondering how I picked up the extreme penalty. I know I should've checked before I took that city but I wasn't expecting it at all. I've warmongered far harder than that (DoW'ing a civ I had a DoF with) in previous games and not gotten the extreme penalty.

    Also, I had no DoF with Japan at the time I Denounced/DoW'd him.
     
  2. A.J.K.

    A.J.K. Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Messages:
    92
  3. BARBEERIAN

    BARBEERIAN Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    It was his second last city though that's the weird part
     
  4. ThorHammerz

    ThorHammerz zzz

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    836
    Each city you take increases your warmongering status by the formula:

    Code:
    int iWarmongerOffset = (875 * iEstimatedCitiesOnMap) / (max(iActualCitiesOnMap, 1) * iNumCitiesRemaining);
    
    
     
  5. BARBEERIAN

    BARBEERIAN Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    503
    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Hmm, seems odd glancing at the formula. I wouldn't think capturing/razing 3 cities would make it jump that high. It was an industrial era war, and the only war I'd fought I. At thAt point in the game aside from stealing a pair of Japanese workers. I could see roughly 30 cities not including CS's (I had contact with a dozen of those). 3 cities seems like a drop in the bucket and normally I do far worse wRmongering without e Dr getting the level 3 penalty.
     
  6. ThorHammerz

    ThorHammerz zzz

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2014
    Messages:
    836
    What map size were you playing on?

    Taking 3 cities would essentially be (assuming ~45 cities on the map, standard world size - including CS'es):

    ( 875 * 52 ) / (45 * 4) = +252
    ( 875 * 52 ) / (45 * 3) = +337
    ( 875 * 52 ) / (45 * 2) = +505
    ______________________________
    +1094

    Multiply that by 0.75, 0.5, 0.25 for Small, Tiny, and Duel sizes respectively.

    If the AI is also at war with the player, then your warmonger offset with that civ is reduced by 50%. Reduce by another 50% if the city you are conquering belongs to a city state.

    The AI must also have met you to give you a warmonger offset.

    For reference, your warmonger per-turn decay is -5. Below is the code each AI checks when determining your warmonger threat.

    Code:
    		// Now do the final assessment
    			if(iThreatValue >= /*200*/ GC.getWARMONGER_THREAT_CRITICAL_THRESHOLD())
    				eThreatType = THREAT_CRITICAL;
    			else if(iThreatValue >= /*100*/ GC.getWARMONGER_THREAT_SEVERE_THRESHOLD())
    				eThreatType = THREAT_SEVERE;
    			else if(iThreatValue >= /*50*/ GC.getWARMONGER_THREAT_MAJOR_THRESHOLD())
    				eThreatType = THREAT_MAJOR;
    			else if(iThreatValue >= /*20*/ GC.getWARMONGER_THREAT_MINOR_THRESHOLD())
    				eThreatType = THREAT_MINOR;
    
     
  7. BARBEERIAN

    BARBEERIAN Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    Thanks for the insight, much appreciated. Any idea how much of that score gets wiped out for the 2 cities I liberated (both Major liberations)?

    I was playing on standard size.
     

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