[NFP] What change would you make to an existing leader's outfit?

[Hellenism Salesman]

As an example (and the reason I'm making this thread):

Odd question but it just now occurred to me: Trajan wears red. Should he?

I know Rome is often associated with red since it was the color of its military (and Rome could be very militaristic), but that wouldn't be what the emperor wore. The emperor would wear purple, as purple dye was incredibly rare and incredibly expensive, making anything of a solid purple color a status symbol of the wealthy. This is actually shown in Civ 5's Augustus.

But, I'm a bit conflicted with Trajan. He's the emperor, so one may assume that he'd wear purple, as was custom. But he was also known for his conquests, so having him lean into the color red would be a nice way to reflect that. And he's wearing armor whenever we see him in-game, signifying this is his military garb, so it would make sense for him to wear red...

Experts, what do you think would better represent Trajan? The color of an emperor? Or the color of a conqueror?

 

[Duke William of Normandy]

Frederick Barbarossa's Plate Armor. It didn't even exist when he was alive.

 

[Luxerne]

I'd like a way for Kublai Khan's icons to be easier to distinguish from each other, the way that both Eleanors, de Medicis, and Roosevelts are.

I guess I would just add the white head covering that you see in his imperial portraits, when he leads China.

 

[João III]

Frederick Barbarossa's Plate Armor. It didn't even exist when he was alive.

And while we're on the topic of Frederick Barbarossa, I'm not sure the crown he wears is based on a real crown. Spent an embarrassing amount researching it. Beginning to think the only accurate part of his model is the red hair

 

[fy00sh]

Unless I could give him his own animations for everything instead of some taken from Genghis Khan, I'd like to remove Basil's metal plating over his clothes. It looks soooooooo bad when it stretches and deforms as if it were cloth and leather.

 

[Kupe Navigator]

is body included because I would've made Mansa Musa and Amanitore thinner. Don't know why they made them fat... ESPECIALLY Amanitore who was said to be something of a warrior queen.

 

[GenyaArikado]

I'd give Tamar her veil

 

[kaspergm]

I'd give Tamar her veil.

Unsurprisingly, that would be my suggestion as well ...

 

[Uberfrog]

A Moctezuma that looks anything at all like an Aztec would be a nice change!

https://mobile.twitter.com/AztecEmpire1520/status/829807274939994112

 

[fy00sh]

Oh yeah. I'd also give Kristina her hat.

 

[Francel]

Either works for me: Give Ba Trieu a sword or change the text to say she’s wielding a spear!

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

Either works for me: Give Ba Trieu a sword or change the text to say she’s wielding a spear!

But she does say spear! "Our spears shall unite against our foes!" Her reference to a sword is to the Lake of the Returned Sword, in Hanoi, but not her sword. Or am I missing something? If I am... that's on me - I wrote all the later NFP lines.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, her ao dai is anachronistic, to be honest, even though it looks great.

 

[Francel]

"Bà Triệu, your people will remember you as a goddess. Stand against those who would try to rein in your storm, and raise your sword in defiance. Neither family nor foe will hold you back."

I am a simple person. I hear "raise your sword" and find it odd she's holding a spear instead of a sword. Sadly, the reference to the Lake of the Returned Sword was lost on me. I know, typical United Statesian.

Hopefully it's obvious this isn't actually an issue for me. I just found it amusing, although apparently the joke's on me.

 

[Zaarin]

Seondeok's dress looks a little more Chinese than Korean to me, though I'm not overly familiar with Silla-era clothing. At the very least she needs drapier sleeves.

Eleanor's entire getup looks more Pre-Raphaelite to me than Medieval, starting with the fact Medieval women didn't show their hair. I'm fine with making her look like a Pre-Raphaelite muse...but then give her stronger features and red hair.

Cleopatra should be wearing a himation and curled updo like a proper Hellenistic woman, but they could have gone bolder with her Egyptian makeup. If you're going to choose a Hellene as your Egyptian leader, at least accept the consequences of your choice.

Ambiorix needs to ditch the woad and don a tunic and cloak.

I already wrote extensively about what is wrong with Gilgamesh.

 

[tzu]

And while we're on the topic of Frederick Barbarossa, I'm not sure the crown he wears is based on a real crown. Spent an embarrassing amount researching it. Beginning to think the only accurate part of his model is the red hair

Friedrich I., called Barbarossa, born about 1122, was crowned 1155 as Holy Roman emperor and died 1190 in the river Saleph near Seleucia.

Most of the Holy Roman emperors since Konrad II. (1027 - 1039) were crowned with the Reichskrone. Today it is in the Hofburg, Vienna.

 

[João III]

Friedrich I., called Barbarossa, born about 1122, was crowned 1155 as Holy Roman emperor and died 1190 in the river Saleph near Seleucia.

Most of the Holy Roman emperors since Konrad II. (1027 - 1039) were crowned with the Reichskrone. Today it is in the Hofburg, Vienna.

View attachment 593144View attachment 593146

I'm not sure how else to say this, but that is not the crown in game.

 

[Andrew Johnson [FXS]]

"Bà Triệu, your people will remember you as a goddess. Stand against those who would try to rein in your storm, and raise your sword in defiance. Neither family nor foe will hold you back."

I am a simple person. I hear "raise your sword" and find it odd she's holding a spear instead of a sword. Sadly, the reference to the Lake of the Returned Sword was lost on me. I know, typical United Statesian.

Hopefully it's obvious this isn't actually an issue for me. I just found it amusing, although apparently the joke's on me.

Ohhhhh yes, the opening lines. I see - those have to go in early for Bean-related reasons. Yes, it's a little strange to say "sword" in there, I agree.

 

[notNamed]

Seondeok's dress looks a little more Chinese than Korean to me.

If anything, her dress should look a little more Chinese than it does right now. The tight sleeves and well defined collar ending are distinct elements that appear during late Joseon dynasty (at least according to the research of artists like Glimja, whom I'm familiar with, I'm no Koreanist). It's definitely not something you'd normally see in any Chinese dresses. As far as historical Silla king/queen dress is concerned, there's plenty of examples online and while they don't agree on all the details, they absolutely look nothing like the lady we've got in the game, aside from the pattern on the collar/belt and the crown.
Pic of a Joseon dress for reference:

Spoiler :

Speaking of East Asia Houjo Tokimune clearly tried much harder but he still falls prey to the curse of eternal Sengoku polluting everything historically Japanese and he's got a clear, if somewhat misinterpreted kataginu (those goofy shoulderpads with crests on both sides). Again, it could somewhat ironically be said that his wardrobe should look a little more "Chinese" rather than the opposite.
Here's a real outfit from the Kamakura period for comparison:

Spoiler :

Finally, I'd actually love to ask Mr. Johnson whether we were right in assuming that the ultimate look decided upon for Ba Trieu was intended to fully highlight her mythical perception (the Ao dai is clearly intentional here, as are all the allusions to Vietnam, Than Long, the Sword in the Lake,...) rather than paying lip-service to the real person these myths adopted the name of (which would, in turn, create an image of a late Han period bandit, closer to the lamellar armor edit made by the Vietnamese community not long after her reveal)?

 

[Kupe Navigator]

Seondeok's dress looks a little more Chinese than Korean to me, though I'm not overly familiar with Silla-era clothing.

I'd say they've got Seondeok quite right and in fact she is one of most accurate figure in the terms of dresses.

 

[Zaarin]

I'd say they've got Seondeok quite right and in fact she is one of most accurate figure in the terms of dresses.

Hmm, that does look reasonably close--except for the tight sleeves as both I and @notNamed pointed out (I do understand flowy sleeves are a pain to animate, but Eleanor got them).