Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
This will be the thread for determinig what civ we want to be. Resister all ideas and arguments here.
What civilization do we want to be?
- Thread starter Sir Bugsy
- Start date
Daghdha
Absent Minded
The only set back for Ottomans is not being agri, but I love the Sips. I dunno what map we'll be playing so it's hard to choose civ...
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I guess that's a good point. The civ should probably be determined by the map type. For example, if we have a panegea we may want an expansionist trait, if it is a 'pelago, perhaps a seafaring trait
SimpleMonkey
King
French can be monsters with their early leap to Maths (SoZ potential, or at least before most folks even have swords), but I noticed that in MTDG 1 everyone picked a civ with an AA UU. Was that intentional? My current favorite civ is Byz -- with an early jump on curraughs, cheap libs, and a deadly UU, Theodora rocks. It goes without saying that Alpha and Pottery can also make the Dutch strong contenders.
My priority in picking a civ is usually the strengths of their starting techs, especially in combination.
My priority in picking a civ is usually the strengths of their starting techs, especially in combination.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
I rarely have had a choice in civ. I don't play many solo games. We're talking zero in the past three years. I usually let my teammates choose the civ in an SG or I advocate a random civ. So having to think about this again, I still think we need to look at the land as our first consideration.
Looking beyond the first 30 turns what would be good to have. There is a lot to be said for a scientific trait. Just for the potential of three free techs alone. Cheap education buildings can really power our research. Other traits we should consider: commercial and religious. Miltary is overrated. I really think one of the traits should be based on land mass. Seafaring on a 'pelgo. Expansionist on a 'gea.
Looking beyond the first 30 turns what would be good to have. There is a lot to be said for a scientific trait. Just for the potential of three free techs alone. Cheap education buildings can really power our research. Other traits we should consider: commercial and religious. Miltary is overrated. I really think one of the traits should be based on land mass. Seafaring on a 'pelgo. Expansionist on a 'gea.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
I like the:
- Celts - Nice Traits (AGR + REG). Nice UU (3.2.2.)
- Iroquis - Awesome Traits (AGR + COM). Sweet UU (3.1.2)
- Persia - Decent Traits (SCI + IND) . Killer UU (4.2.1.)
- Arabs - Very Bad traits (EXP + REG). Decent UU (4.2.3)
- Sumeria - Really nice traits (AGR + SCI). Nice UU (1.2.1)
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Someone in another thread had an idea that we have lists already made up for any potential map; i.e. one for Panagea, one for 'pelago, one for continents.
So here is my take on a archipelago map. Seafaring is one requirement. Therefore looking at the seven civs with that trait:
Portuguese (Expansionist, UU- Carrack (2.2.4)) - Just about the worst choice we could make. The Expanionist trait is not good for islands. And the carrack is not exactly a game changing unit. Grade: F
English (Commercial, UU - Man O'War (4.2.5)) - IIRC, the MoW can also enslave. You have the ability to control the sea completely. Commercial trait can be powerful. Grade: A
Carthaginian (Industrious, UU - Nu Merc (2.3.1)) Industrial is one of those take it or leave traits for me. Yes, the faster worker makes a difference in the early game, but I don't know if that will make a huge difference against humans. Grade: C
Vikings (Militaristic, UU - Zerk(6.2.1)) - This is another game changing UU. The increased odds of leaders is always nice. Grade: A
Spainish (Religious, UU - Conquistador (3.2.2)) The all terrain as roads is a nice feature for a UU. Makes an enemy really protect their entire front.
Grade: B
Byzantine (Scientific, UU - Dromon(2.1.3)) - The early bombard feature on the Dromon is great to have, especially on a 'pelago. Grade: A
Dutch (Argicultural, UU - Swiss Merc (1.4.1)) - Argiculture is a great trait, except you won't have many rivers on a 'pelago. The UU is a nice unit Grade: B
So I would say:
1a. Byzantines
1b. English
1c. Vikings
4. Dutch
5. Spanish
Next, I'll look at Panagea civs.
So here is my take on a archipelago map. Seafaring is one requirement. Therefore looking at the seven civs with that trait:
Portuguese (Expansionist, UU- Carrack (2.2.4)) - Just about the worst choice we could make. The Expanionist trait is not good for islands. And the carrack is not exactly a game changing unit. Grade: F
English (Commercial, UU - Man O'War (4.2.5)) - IIRC, the MoW can also enslave. You have the ability to control the sea completely. Commercial trait can be powerful. Grade: A
Carthaginian (Industrious, UU - Nu Merc (2.3.1)) Industrial is one of those take it or leave traits for me. Yes, the faster worker makes a difference in the early game, but I don't know if that will make a huge difference against humans. Grade: C
Vikings (Militaristic, UU - Zerk(6.2.1)) - This is another game changing UU. The increased odds of leaders is always nice. Grade: A
Spainish (Religious, UU - Conquistador (3.2.2)) The all terrain as roads is a nice feature for a UU. Makes an enemy really protect their entire front.
Grade: B
Byzantine (Scientific, UU - Dromon(2.1.3)) - The early bombard feature on the Dromon is great to have, especially on a 'pelago. Grade: A
Dutch (Argicultural, UU - Swiss Merc (1.4.1)) - Argiculture is a great trait, except you won't have many rivers on a 'pelago. The UU is a nice unit Grade: B
So I would say:
1a. Byzantines
1b. English
1c. Vikings
4. Dutch
5. Spanish
Next, I'll look at Panagea civs.
SimpleMonkey
King
Again, the combination of start techs is what I look for. Even the Portuguese can rise above their humble reputation if you consider that they start with Alpha (immediate dinky boats for early contacts and a head start on the road to Philo and/or Repub) and Pottery (immediate granary for settler factories). Portuguese can use boats and scouts to make first contacts, also quite useful.
Which is not to say that I'm voting to be Portugal. There just doesn't seem to be too much fun about them. Vikings seem kinda like a one shot deal -- you either take over the world with berserks or you don't do much of anything. Dutch would be my number one choice to handle any map, with Byz right behind. I guess what I'm really saying is that my highest priority isn't the map type, but the start techs and the impact of traits on an early game.
Which is not to say that I'm voting to be Portugal. There just doesn't seem to be too much fun about them. Vikings seem kinda like a one shot deal -- you either take over the world with berserks or you don't do much of anything. Dutch would be my number one choice to handle any map, with Byz right behind. I guess what I'm really saying is that my highest priority isn't the map type, but the start techs and the impact of traits on an early game.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
SimpleMonkey
King
I have no problems with Daghdha as our rep. Congratulations! 
My vote is still the four step process I proposed here:
but I'm fine with simplifying it and having us choose our own civ. I'm not in favor of us customizing our own civ, as it's too imbalancing. However, I do really like giving Rik the power to tweak our civ a bit before we play it.
If we're going to choose a civ that can handle most any map, has a solid UU that come at a good time, and has good synergy in its start techs, my choice would be Byzantines, China, Maya, and Dutch, in that order.
My vote is still the four step process I proposed here:Spoiler :
but I'm fine with simplifying it and having us choose our own civ. I'm not in favor of us customizing our own civ, as it's too imbalancing. However, I do really like giving Rik the power to tweak our civ a bit before we play it.
If we're going to choose a civ that can handle most any map, has a solid UU that come at a good time, and has good synergy in its start techs, my choice would be Byzantines, China, Maya, and Dutch, in that order.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
I like the Iroquis and the Dutch (AGR). 
China too (Riders).
China too (Riders).
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Four Step process is better than a 12 step process.SimpleMonkey said:I have no problems with Daghdha as our rep. Congratulations!
Since we're not exactly organized (and I like it that way) Daghie you are the man.
For the time being why don't we make this rule for making decisions. If we have three members in the pub decide that something is a good idea over a pint. The idea will pass until three other smarter members decide it isn't.
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
Edit - I would like for the civs to be something random. Either out of a hat, the Great meleet selects, or everyone's choice thrown into a hat and randomized. I think the last one is best.
If we go with the last one, I suggest we select either America or the Aztecs.
If we go with the last one, I suggest we select either America or the Aztecs.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
SiMo's 2 first steps I agree with 100%. Prob with 3 is that it is so artificial and I don't get the imbalancing part 
. I don't think Rik will agree to #4 since it gives him too much power/trouble. How could he tweek the traits/uu without having the map in mind, and a lot of players will argue that their team were tweeked "down".
Anyway, if anyone have another suggestion please post asap.
I will post a poll soon so we can have our say in UN. The suggestions so far:
1
1) Rik build the map before knowing what the civs are going to be.
2) Teams not knowing the map characteristics before we pick our civs. (In fact, I'd like it if we have to figure out the map totally for ourselves.)
3) Having teams pick a civ to be randomly assigned to another team (with the chance that you could get your own selection).
4) Having Rik tweak those civs in some unknown way after civs have been assigned (changing one trait, altering the UU's stats, etc.). This could restore any imbalances created by the randomness generated so far.
2
1) Rik build the map before knowing what the civs are going to be.
2) Teams choose traits/uu freely, not knowing what the map will be.
. I don't think Rik will agree to #4 since it gives him too much power/trouble. How could he tweek the traits/uu without having the map in mind, and a lot of players will argue that their team were tweeked "down".Anyway, if anyone have another suggestion please post asap.
I will post a poll soon so we can have our say in UN. The suggestions so far:
1
1) Rik build the map before knowing what the civs are going to be.
2) Teams not knowing the map characteristics before we pick our civs. (In fact, I'd like it if we have to figure out the map totally for ourselves.)
3) Having teams pick a civ to be randomly assigned to another team (with the chance that you could get your own selection).
4) Having Rik tweak those civs in some unknown way after civs have been assigned (changing one trait, altering the UU's stats, etc.). This could restore any imbalances created by the randomness generated so far.
2
1) Rik build the map before knowing what the civs are going to be.
2) Teams choose traits/uu freely, not knowing what the map will be.
RFHolloway
Analyst in the UK
great idea on civs! we each select one and then they are randomly allocated!
if we want to pick for ourselves
for me you can't beat an agri civ on pangea - celts would be my choice. In fact they might well be my choice if I knew nothing about the map.
england or byzantines on islands.
I would also think carefully before taking a civ with a slow UU. Given the last game we will see action into the modern ages - Panzers still come too late, but a Cav UU might be just right
if we want to pick for ourselves
for me you can't beat an agri civ on pangea - celts would be my choice. In fact they might well be my choice if I knew nothing about the map.
england or byzantines on islands.
I would also think carefully before taking a civ with a slow UU. Given the last game we will see action into the modern ages - Panzers still come too late, but a Cav UU might be just right
TimBentley
Deity
3 of the 5 teams have chosen the MTDG I style, so unless one of them changes their mind we'll have to make our list of 5 civs. The Iroquois are my favorite.
SimpleMonkey
King
Celts, Byz, English, Iroquois, China, and Dutch seem to be our top choices so far. The only other civ I'd consider would be Sumerians. Agri and Sci are powerful traits. Of the two, I'd go with scientific.
Daghdha
Absent Minded
Ginger has posted a UN thread about team selection HERE . Please go look.
Like in mtdg1 we choose our own (un-modded) civ so no Henry or Bismarc
.
I'm not sure if we're allowed to hold this until we know what kind of map we'll have. We'll see...
I like Osman, but I'll be fine with whatever that's agri/com/sci. France is a dark horse and I'm quite sure we would be the only ones choosing Joan.
Like in mtdg1 we choose our own (un-modded) civ so no Henry or Bismarc
.I'm not sure if we're allowed to hold this until we know what kind of map we'll have. We'll see...
I like Osman, but I'll be fine with whatever that's agri/com/sci. France is a dark horse and I'm quite sure we would be the only ones choosing Joan.
Ansar
Détente avec l'été
My preferrable civs:
- France
- Iroquis
- Deustchland
- Sumeria
- England (Archipelago)
Sir Bugsy
Civ.D.
China
Sumeria
Ottomans
Sumeria
Ottomans
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