What do Social Policy Benefits Represent Historically?

[Marshall Thomas]

My questions has nothing to do with actual gameplay mechanics; rather it has to do with immersing one's self in the CiV gameworld. Now that all (or almost all) of the effects of CiV's social policies have been revealed, what exactly do you think their effects represent historically? As an abstraction, of course.

I like to use my imagination while I'm playing a campaign of Civilization and I'm also usually watching The International History Channel while playing. If I only think of the benefit of a social policy as some sort of arbitrary advantage, then CiV will become more of a just "gamey puzzle." I agree that gameplay is more important than historical realism, but it's best to have both if you really want to immerse yourself.

So what do you think each social policy benefits represents historically? Thanks in advance

 

[Auncien]

My questions has nothing to do with actual gameplay mechanics; rather it has to do with immersing one's self in the CiV gameworld. Now that all (or almost all) of the effects of CiV's social policies have been revealed, what exactly do you think their effects represent historically? As an abstraction, of course.

I like to use my imagination while I'm playing a campaign of Civilization and I'm also usually watching The International History Channel while playing. If I only think of the benefit of a social policy as some sort of arbitrary advantage, then CiV will become more of a just "gamey puzzle." I agree that gameplay is more important than historical realism, but it's best to have both if you really want to immerse yourself.

So what do you think each social policy benefits represents historically? Thanks in advance

The sort of intangible, metaphysical aspects of a particular culture / nation state's identity along with the benefits and limitations that go along with that.

EDIT: I'll also add that these social policy trees are purchased with culture as a sort of currency, if I'm not mistaken, which makes sense. The more of a cultural 'identity' your people form by accumulating culture, the more social / economic / political 'stuff' you can implement as is the case in history.

 

[parabellum9x19]

The sort of intangible, metaphysical aspects of a particular culture / nation state's identity along with the benefits and limitations that go along with that.

EDIT: I'll also add that these social policy trees are purchased with culture as a sort of currency, if I'm not mistaken, which makes sense. The more of a cultural 'identity' your people form by accumulating culture, the more social / economic / political 'stuff' you can implement as is the case in history.

you're not mistaken...& i think that's a nice perspective on the mechanic too

 

[Dbob]

While I feel that SP are in some way your peoples' cultural identity since they are bought with accumulated culture , I really think a civ's identity is more its unique traits. This is mostly because those are actually individual to each civ, instead of available to all.

I think the SP are more of the decisions that the leader (you) makes to shape what the civilization becomes. These can be anything from military doctrines to nation economic and production plans to how religious a country is.

I know that doesn't really work with the SP being unlocked by culture, you would think its more of a populace making the decision than the leader...but I've always felt that since civ 3 it should have been called "influence" instead of culture. This way your leader is gaining enough influence on his people to have the new SP decision that he/she has made go over well with them and be integrated into the society.

 

[Auncien]

While I feel that SP are in some way your peoples' cultural identity since they are bought with accumulated culture , I really think a civ's identity is more its unique traits. This is mostly because those are actually individual to each civ, instead of available to all.

I think the SP are more of the decisions that the leader (you) makes to shape what the civilization becomes. These can be anything from military doctrines to nation economic and production plans to how religious a country is.

I know that doesn't really work with the SP being unlocked by culture, you would think its more of a populace making the decision than the leader...but I've always felt that since civ 3 it should have been called "influence" instead of culture. This way your leader is gaining enough influence on his people to have the new SP decision that he/she has made go over well with them and be integrated into the society.

I've always seen the player as sort of 'fate' or 'the guiding hand of destiny' for their civ rather than as a corporeal individual. Timeless and omniscient.

 

[cccv]

Well, I think in a lot of cases they represent exactly what they say they represent. Monarchy=your government is a monarchy. free speech=you allow your citizens the right to free speech. Naval tradition=your country has a strong naval tradition.

etc.

 

[Marshall Thomas]

Well, I think in a lot of cases they represent exactly what they say they represent. Monarchy=your government is a monarchy. free speech=you allow your citizens the right to free speech. Naval tradition=your country has a strong naval tradition.

etc.

Yes, but how do their specific gameplay benefits/effects relect this? Thanks in advance

 

[cccv]

Ah, I misunderstood you. Most of it looks like it makes sense, maybe requiring imagination or stretching in some areas. but say, naval tradition. If you have a strong naval tradition it would mean you've invested heavily in your navy, so the bonus: "+1 Movement and +1 sight range for naval combat units" makes sense. You build better ships.

Free speech: "Reduces the Culture cost of future policies by 30%" The free sharing of ideas leads to the faster development of new social policies.

For scientific revolution, "Gives 2 free technologies" makes sense because you'll be discovering new technologies quickly.

As for monarchy, the bonus is "Purchasing tiles is 50% cheaper." I don't know enough about history or politics to understand why a monarchy would be able to purchase land cheaper, but I buy that there probably is a rationale for it.

Free religion: "2 Free Cultural Policies." This is getting more abstract. I guess I can kind of imagine how allowing people freedom to their religion could foster diversity and facilitate the sharing and mixing of ideas to help bring forth new policies. Or you could say that the fact that you're being less restrictive of your people is what helps create the new ideas. Either way it might be a stretch, but it's close enough for the game.

So it's kind of a mix of stuff that makes sense, stuff that I'll trust makes some sort of sense even if I'm ignorant to the reason, and stuff that you can tell yourself makes sense even if it takes some imagination.

 

[SalmonSoil]

Also, certain policies you might have would be impossible to work with other policies you might have, for instance in the piety tree there is both theocracy and free religion (although not neccesarily exclusive, they often are). In this instance the previous social policies represent the history of your civilization and it's lasting effects ont it's people.

 

[Alki]

Ah, I misunderstood you. Most of it looks like it makes sense, maybe requiring imagination or stretching in some areas. but say, naval tradition. If you have a strong naval tradition it would mean you've invested heavily in your navy, so the bonus: "+1 Movement and +1 sight range for naval combat units" makes sense. You build better ships.

No, I think it means you build better sailors.

 

[Thyrwyn]

The sort of intangible, metaphysical aspects of a particular culture / nation state's identity along with the benefits and limitations that go along with that.

EDIT: I'll also add that these social policy trees are purchased with culture as a sort of currency, if I'm not mistaken, which makes sense. The more of a cultural 'identity' your people form by accumulating culture, the more social / economic / political 'stuff' you can implement as is the case in history.

This is how I described my impression in another thread:

...the linking of culture to Social Policies is inspired and elegant: the more cultured your civ, the more evolved and effective your guiding ideology becomes. The more energy and effort you put into celebrating your culture, the more refined and ingrained your national sense of identity becomes.

All peoples are seen as having a distinct personality. That personality persists, regardless of their current system of government. Social Policies are a way of representing that cultural identity.

 

[Marshall Thomas]

What do you think the benefits of each of these social policies represent historically? Thanks in advance

TRADE UNIONS: -20% maintenance cost for roads and railroads
MERCANTILISM: -25% cost to purchase (rush) items in cities (req Trade Unions)
PROTECTIONISM: +1 happiness from each luxury resource (req Mercantilism)


RATIONALISM: 5 turn golden age

SECULARISM: +2 science from each specialist
FREE THOUGHT: +2 science from each Trading Post (req Secularism)
SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION: 2 free technologies (req Free Thought)

HUMANISM: +1 happiness from each University
SOVEREIGNTY: +15% science while your empire is happy (req Humanism)

 

[Tomice]

Well, the commerce tree seems to represent the changes in society that lead to things like the hanseatic league. Cities and their rich citizens became the new ruling body, while the old aristocracy in their castles lost power. Rich citizens and merchants had so much economic power, that they gained influence over the nobility.

The rationalism tree represents the loss of clerical influence, when after the middle ages the church monopoly on explaining the world fell. After this development, exploring the inner workings of the world was no longer considered taboo, and stuff like anatomic dissections were allowed without risk of being considered the devils advocate.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

For Monarchy : I think it represents well how kings acquired land through marriage. Maybe in the civ world you gain half of the tile through blood and for the rest you have to compensate the locals.

 

[DeepQantas]

TRADE UNIONS: -20% maintenance cost for roads and railroads

I'm suddenly starting to think TRADE UNIONS refers to an union of traders, ie. a corporation. Like Union Pacific Railroad.

I have no idea where the maintenance cost reduction would come from if it was talking about labor unions as I previously thought. It'd also solve the problem of what it's doing under Commerce rather than Order.

Still can't figure out why it's called Trade Unions, tho. Or why some real life corporations are called Union Something.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I am sort of annoyed by the names in the commerce... instead of Trade Unions, Protectionism and Mercantilism, they should be

Corporations: decreased maint for roads
Free Trade: easier buy
Mass Market: more happy

I do agree 'Trade unions' could easily be trading corporations.

Perhaps things like Free Trade, Corporations, etc. are on the tech tree.

 

[cccv]

Is it really necessary to have everything explained? You can't take a few on faith?


SCIENTIFIC REVOLUTION: 2 free technologies-- I already went over that one.

HUMANISM: +1 happiness from each University-- universities teach the ideals of humanism, this makes people happy.

SECULARISM: +2 science from each specialist-- specialists are not told that their work must conform to doctrine, helping advance science.

RATIONALISM: 5 turn golden age-- Emphasis on reason leads to increased science, military action, production, etc.

I know nothing about economics, someone else will have to spell out the commerce stuff for you.

 

[Venereus]

HUMANISM: +1 happiness from each University-- universities teach the ideals of humanism, this makes people happy.

Teaching humanism doesn't make people happier. Teching with the well being of humans in mind is what makes people happier. Humanist research is about increasing the quality of life trough science and technology. Just telling ppl to be humanists doesn't cut it.

 

[Olleus]

For my part, I see SP partly as the policy of the state (ie, whats in the constitution rather than the policies of a government) and partly as the cultural beliefs of a society.

 

[Thyrwyn]

Teaching humanism doesn't make people happier. Teching with the well being of humans in mind is what makes people happier. Humanist research is about increasing the quality of life trough science and technology. Just telling ppl to be humanists doesn't cut it.

And that is why, if your society espouses the Humanist ideal, Universities make them happy