What do we know about Laroth?

KillerClowns

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The thread title really says it all. Aside from the fact that he made the Nether Blade, was one of Kylorin's students, specialized in Spirit magic, and is presently leading a revolution in Arwan's vault by collecting heroic souls, my knowledge on Laroth is a bit vague. Anyone got any other details? Descriptions somewhere in the 'pedia or given in scenarios I've not yet finished (e.g. most of them)?
 
These are the only mentions of Larth in the Pedia/scenarios:

Mulcarn Reborn Victory text said:
--- Epilogue ---

Ethne played beneath the Tulip Poplar tree. She could see the palace through a veil of fog and hear the distant sounds of the city beyond the palace grounds. Somewhere within the gardens other child ran and played, but she could not see them.

This place, this dream, wrapped itself tightly around her. It was easy to believe. But nagging thoughts, the trials and pains of her life, would not let her rest. She was not a child, she was the ruler of an empire she loved, she had taken that empire to war, seen countless good soldiers die and she had been the victim of an assassins attack.

It was this last thought that jarred her from the dream. That attack, the dark blade that stole her life and carried her soul to this place. She could see it clearly now, she was a child no more.

The shape of a palace obscured by fog remained, as did the spirits of children playing in the field. The Tulip Poplar tree was gone, until she looked for it, and then it reappeared. She wore a beautiful mourning gown, which is traditional for burial among the Elohim, but Ethne suspected it wasn't real either.

As Ethne walked she found other spirits trapped within their own dreams, playing, sleeping or talking quietly to empty air. They seemed peaceful enough so she didn't disturb them. There was no wall around the palace grounds as she had imagined, and no city beyond, only the hazy surface of this world and a labyrinth of passages to chambers full of other dreams.

It was impossible to tell how long she walked. Some places were pleasant, a field of flowers and wild birds, a pond where a boy and a large yellow dog played together, a mother who eternally sung to her child. Others were darker, a shadowy forest inhabited by glowing moths, a cellar where Ethne heard crying but couldn't find anyone, a lost child calling eternally for help. And some of the chambers were just strange, there was a city that ran backwards, an empty carnival where spirits ran and hid from each other and a galleon coming straight out of the ground crewed by souls ever looking unsuccessfully for land.

Eventually Ethne wandered onto a small farm. A single barn stood on a field that had been recently harvested, the barn itself was well stocked with grain and the smell of freshly cut wheat filled the air. A man sat on a chair in front of the barn looking at a distant village, barely visible beyond the haze.

The man looked at Ethne as she approached.

"None of it is real." He said.[NEWLINE]

"I know" Ethne replied startled, "did you grow up on this farm?"

"Yes, on a farm like this."

Shackles snaked up through the ground and clasp onto the man wrists. Ethne turned to run but another pair grabbed her. They were both pulled through the surface of the ground, into a world without light, substance or breath. When they came out they were dropped into a summoning circle in a large vaulted ivory chamber. A man with a crown of mirrors and deep black pits instead of eyes stared at both of them. A blue skinned angel stood beside him and around the room hundreds of humans, elves, dwarves and orcs stood watching. Ethne knew they were all great people from many ages, kings and heroes.

"Ethne. Auric." The man without eyes said, "Welcome to my palace. There are only two choices in the world of the dead, you wait endlessly, or you rebel. I am the leader of that rebellion, I am Laroth."

FfH History said:
Age of Magic
...

Kylorin becomes the king of the Patrians. He is a wise and popular ruler, loved by his people. When his wife betrays him Kylorin considers suicide by jumping from the top of his palace. Ceridwen, queen of pain, talks to him there, offering him another deal. That she will give Kylorin eternal youth and have his wife be resurrected in a new form each time she dies so that he may find and remarry her without the memory of her betrayal. The price is that Kylorin will worship Cerdiwen and lead the Patrians according to her desires. Kylorin agrees.

Cerdiwen gifts Kylorin with eternal youth and teaches him magic. He becomes the first archmage and begins teaching others how to use magic to enforce his ever more corrupt rule over Patria. In a few generations his rule is absolute and vile. Sorcerers practice bizarre experiments, creating creatures like manticores, chimera and trolls and rule the fiefdoms in their control as gods. Kylorin directly trains 21 students and puts each in charge of a separate magical school.

These were the names of Kylorin's students:

Air- Greysun
Body- Kezef (whose experiments killed all the animals on the Grigi plains)
Chaos- Carnivean
Creation- Majen (elven)
Death- Barbatos
Dimensional- Os-Gabella
Earth- Jenkin
Enchantment- Velgyr
Entropy- Asmoday
Fire- Mikel Dylantyr
Force- Paimon
Ice- Badb
Law- Soqed Hozi
Life- Leucetios
Metamagic- Gastrius
Mind- Perpentach
Nature- Herve
Shadow- Wode (elven)
Spirit- Laroth (who would create his own empire in the underworld)
Sun- Tamesis
Water- Trenton Majosi (aifon)

...

After the death of the god of winter Sucellus was reborn, now the god of life. For the first time a god passed between the underworld and creation and doorways were opened between these realms. Through one a group of living elves, pulled long ago into the Dungeon of Laroth, escaped. They brought with them some stolen tomes from Laroth's studies in the underworld. One of which would be used by Sandalphon to teach men to become shades and create the Sidar.


Gift of Kylorin scenario intro said:
During the Age of Magic Kylorin used magical trials to separate common mages from the truly talented. The things that appeared in the trials were illusions, but the risk of death was real. Most died, but the few that passed the trials went on to be some of the most powerful archmages of their age.

Some or the leaders in the current age, such as Os-Gabella and Perpentach, went through these trials when Patria was still the only empire of man. Others, such as Laroth, Barbatos or Trenton Majosi are less well known survivors of the trials.

It was hundreds of years into the Age of Rebirth before Dain of the Amurites, discovered the records of these magical trials. They were considered archaic, a violent reminder of Patria during its darkest hours. The culture of the Amurites celebrated public study of magic and this was seen as a more enlightened approach.

But Dain wondered how he compared to the Patrian archmages. And was even more interested in the greater talent the trial seemed to imbue in the lucky few who survived. Dain searched for, and found several locations for these trials, but most were simply empty towers, dungeons or cave labyrinths. Until in the year 441 of the fourth age Dain found the location of one that was still active.

The locals, a group of Balseraph fishermen living on the edge of their empire, long ago learned to avoid the cave; no one who entered it ever came out. They claimed death himself lived within it. They also claimed that chickens were divine, so Dain didn’t take their warnings very seriously.

With a spellstaff and healing salve ready, as these were the traditional aides given to those taking the trial, Dain entered the cave.


I believe it has been stated that Laroth was killed by Kylorin, but now that I'm typing this I also remember Kael stating that the only confirmed battle between Kylorin and his students was that with Perpentach. Maybe someone else killed him then.


It has been stated that Laroth's type of spirit magic isn't so much the encouragement we typically see, but the abilities like binding souls in artifacts and driving entire cities into a deep (perhaps suicidal) depressions. It seems he is also good at summoning the souls of the departed mortals in a way similar to how Demons and Elementals are usually summoned.



I believe that Kael has said that Gyra is trying to fight Laroth, but Arawn himself doesn't think this rebellion is worth any consideration. Gyra can't convince very many angels to help her fight him because their god won't tell them to do so. Many of Arawn's angels strongly dislike his non-interventionist approach, and a significant minority have chosen to join with Laroth. It seems that that blue angel seen in the Mulcarn Reborn Epilogue and in Rathaus's entry is one of Arawn's greater andgels who now aspires to be the Archangel of Death Under Laroth. Most of the souls of mortals serving Laroth don't seem to realize his goal is to become a god, but this angel surely does.


I believe that Kael has implied that Laroth may have let his tomes fall into the hands of the Gossams on purpose, so that they would make it to the surface and be used. I had originally thought that the Waning ritual just allowed a Shade to slowly consume his own soul for immortality, but it apparently actually gives the caster's soul to Laroth. The Sidar have no idea that Laroth exists or that he is trying to usurp Arawn's throne, but they are really acting as his servants anyway. They would probably be appaled to learn this, as they highly revere Arawn. This may have something to do with why Basium tried to destroy the Sidar, but Gyra stopped them. Even if they are serving her enemy, Gyra values their reverence for her god.
 
The thread title really says it all. Aside from the fact that he made the Nether Blade, was one of Kylorin's students, specialized in Spirit magic, and is presently leading a revolution in Arwan's vault by collecting heroic souls, my knowledge on Laroth is a bit vague. Anyone got any other details? Descriptions somewhere in the 'pedia or given in scenarios I've not yet finished (e.g. most of them)?


Actually, even knowing that is knowing a lot. We don't really know that much about Amelanchier, for example, and he's a civ leader.

Laroth is pretty awesome though. Probably the coolest of Kylorins students, aside from Perp.
 
What, you don't think Os-Gabella is cool? Or Trenton Majosi? All of Kylorin's students were probably very interesting characters, but we just don't know as much about them.


You mention of Perpentach reminded me that Kael said that Kylorin had to kill several old friends who were under Perpentach's contorol in order to get to Perp. It is possible that these included some of his students. I just got to thinking it is possible that Laroth ended up in the Netherworld instead of hell because his most serious crimes were committed while under Perpentach's domination. That is probably not true, but it could be interesting. It would allow both the statement that Kylorin killed Laroth and that the only battle between Kylorin and one of his students was the battle with Perpentach to be true.
 
Perpentach's 'pedia, IIRC, mentions that Kylorin killed Gastrius as well. Though this may have not counted as a battle if, for instance, Kylorin ambushed Gastrius, or ordered him assassinated, or something to that tune.
 
That is true, but it may be worth noting that Kael did not personally write Perpentach's entry and didn't seem particularly familiar with it. He told Nikis-Knight (I think) that Kylorin defeated Perpentach in battle but chose not to kill him, but left all the other details up to him. I tend to think it is cannon though, even if not Kael's own work. Kylorin may very well have slain many of his students, but Kael hadn't thought them out in great detail.
 
That is true, but it may be worth noting that Kael did not personally write Perpentach's entry and didn't seem particularly familiar with it. He told Nikis-Knight (I think) that Kylorin defeated Perpentach in battle but chose not to kill him, but left all the other details up to him. I tend to think it is cannon though, even if not Kael's own work. Kylorin may very well have slain many of his students, but Kael hadn't thought them out in great detail.

Thats true, anything in the mod is canon and overwrites casual conversations we have here.
 
Anything? Surely the Tebryn entry wasn't to considered cannon just before the recent rewrite?
 
Anything? Surely the Tebryn entry wasn't to considered cannon just before the recent rewrite?

Thats not to say that it cant be canon that should be corrected. We find mistakes form time to time. But we need a hierarchy to keep lore straight and the in game text is the very top of that hierarchy.
 
What, you don't think Os-Gabella is cool? Or Trenton Majosi? All of Kylorin's students were probably very interesting characters, but we just don't know as much about them.


You mention of Perpentach reminded me that Kael said that Kylorin had to kill several old friends who were under Perpentach's contorol in order to get to Perp. It is possible that these included some of his students. I just got to thinking it is possible that Laroth ended up in the Netherworld instead of hell because his most serious crimes were committed while under Perpentach's domination. That is probably not true, but it could be interesting. It would allow both the statement that Kylorin killed Laroth and that the only battle between Kylorin and one of his students was the battle with Perpentach to be true.

They are cool, but not THAT cool. Pretty much every character that has their own pedia entry in FfH are cool. I just don't find them as cool as a guy who can control a freaking realm with his MIND, even after he has DIED. Holy freaking cow, THAT is awesome. Os-Gabella is pretty much Lilith, and i never really liked that kinda character anyway. I don't know that much about Trenton, but he probably kinda killed the Aifons once, so that's pretty uncool.

But they are still cool though. Do we know anything about the rest of his students? Os-Gabella and Trenton were the only ones i considered when i rated Laroth's coolness.
 
We don't know a lot. We know that Gastrius was killed by Kylorin, and that Barbatos became a lich and was trapped in his tomb by Kylorin. The others are still a mystery. Most have probably died, but could still be around as demons. I like to think that at least one of the Demon Lords from Lord of the Balors is actually a former student of Kylorin, although they probably don't remember that previous life very well. Majen and Wode may still reside with the Summer and Winter courts, as elves can live a very long time.
 
Thanks for posting that Epilogue, Magister. I thought I was going to have to play the scenario to get at it. It's one of the few I had left, but it saves me the trouble of forcing me to do it in the next few days. Since my D&D campaign starting in the next week or two is based around Laroch's rebellion in the afterlife.

It all seems to fit in quite nicely with what I already had planned out for the campaign. Most people are trapped in their own set patterns, almost entirely unaware of anything around them. The people that were more willful or gifted in life retain some part of themselves, but the existance is essentially empty. It's like a prison.

I imagine most of the people still 'awake' in the afterlife wouldn't even care if Laroch intended to become the new god of death, so long as he promised some kind of freedom when he got there. And I'm sure those kind of promises would flow freely, too.
 
Including the happenings of the scenarios, or just the pedia entries?

Viewed through the lens of FfH2 the scenarios aren't history, they are the future. It becomes a time reference problem. If you were to ask, "Who controls the Fane of Lessers?" it would be Hyborem. Even though several leaders could control the Fane after you play the scenarios, we assume the scenarios haven't taken place yet.

That doesn't mean that the scenarios aren't canon, they just aren't history. They haven't happened yet.
 
Viewed through the lens of FfH2 the scenarios aren't history, they are the future. It becomes a time reference problem. If you were to ask, "Who controls the Fane of Lessers?" it would be Hyborem. Even though several leaders could control the Fane after you play the scenarios, we assume the scenarios haven't taken place yet.

That doesn't mean that the scenarios aren't canon, they just aren't history. They haven't happened yet.

So scenarios are more or less all the different paths that the future or Erebus could hold?
 
So scenarios are more or less all the different paths that the future or Erebus could hold?

FfH2 isnt a story. We spend a lot of time working on the story up to the point where the game begins. But after that we very intentionally take it off the rails and allow the player to develop his own story. That could be in the epic game, or in the scenarios.

So questions like "who really won the elven civil war?" have no answer. If we were to say that the scenarios were canon then Arendel won it (according to the victory text for Arendel) and Faeryl won it (according to the victory text for Faeryl) which are obviously contradictory results. Does that mean the scenarios aren't canon?
 
I wonder whether Laroth has any chance of succeeding in overthrowing Arawn.
First of all, his mastery is that of Spirit, and he's mostly able to work through deception.
Barbatos and Arawn, maybe Kylorin too, are probably better than him at using Death magic, although it's not clear to me what the difference is between Death and Spirit: Is Death magic keeping death at bay, ignoring its effects, preventing the soul/spirit from reaching a Vault or Hell?
Why do the Sidar hate the undead? Probably because becoming undead prevents your soul from reaching Arawn's vault, and thus deprives Laroth from potential subjects. Or because Arawn can't control them in any way as their spirit is no longer there and there's just a walking corpse? The latter might work for skeletons but seems unlikely with spectres. Anyway, the latter explanation would mean that Laroth would have very limited power on the walking dead.
 
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