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What do you do to deal with lots of rough terrain in a war?

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by JamesCivFan, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    I would like to ask this question, as I seem to still be lacking in that part of the game.
    In my current one, (Japan, Deity, Pangaea, All else standard) I wanted to do a samurai rush on my neighbor, Russia.

    I managed to get to Steel on turn 95. In the following screenshot you can see my just upgraded samurais on turn 96, ready to go. http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/5285/2012073000001.jpg

    I would like to take at least Russia's two best cities (Moscow and St. Petersburg), maybe building the Notre Dame in the process, just to keep my happiness up. I am planning to go for a science victory after I conquer them, staying pretty much peaceful for the rest of the game.

    A few things about my opponent: The only have the Statue of Zeus as of now (The GW is gone, so no nasty surprises there). I can get their stack of 544 gold before attacking, which could give me another samurai (I already have 7), they are not allied with any dangerous CS's nearby, and most of their iron is located down in that tundra city (a 6 iron mine), which I guess will have to be pillaged quickly.

    But what about this whole rough terrain that separates us? How would you deal with that?

    One other side note, there's absolutely no danger of anyone else DOWing me, as I have made Declarations of Friendship with my other neighbors recently.
     
  2. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    Quickly get Yakutsk with actual units. Stay there and kill their units coming at you. Meanwhile build some trebuchets(going for physic for ND) and bring down his 2 biggest cities HP very fast with them.
     
  3. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    Do you think it's a good idea going for Yaroslavl right afterwards? There doesn't seem to be a valid way into Moscow or St Petersburg. Plus, there's this iron, which if cut, will definitely make her units suffer the lack of strategic resource penalty.

    Russia tends to go to Longswords fairly quickly. And I saw she has 4 iron pieces left, which will definitely mean cutting it will do the trick. Also, should I raze Yakutsk?
     
  4. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    It depends if he's allied with the cs and if Rostov has his iron connected. Personnally i wouldn't bother. Your army is large enough at this point. Keep Yakutsk for a heal base. After that i bet you can raze it if you want.
     
  5. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    Rostov has definitely its iron connected, I was keeping track of her iron even before she settled Yaroslavl. It's a 2 iron mine. She's not allied with Almaty (which is located at the top, if you mean that). But still. I bet she has Horsemen, Pikemen, Swordsmen and soon enough Longswords, apart from CB's.

    What city do you think I should go after Yakutsk then, if not Yaroslavl?
     
  6. pollock

    pollock Warlord

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    I pretty much agree with approach to start the war take Yakutsk then for a war of unit elimiation for a while.

    If the terrain is rough and slow going i tend to flank out. Id definitely poke at Yaroslav to see how well defended it is. When trebuchets arrived id take Yaroslav then attack moscow from the east.
     
  7. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    Hm, alright. I definitely doubt it will be much of a problem taking Yaroslav, even if she rush buys a castle. I can surely get 3 catapults, upgrading them to trebuchets by the time Physics get researched. After Yakutsk, Yaroslavl is the easiest one to just storm it with Samurais and maybe a CB or two, while the rest of my less powerful units stay behind for defense, if she tries to bring units to take back Yakutsk. I'm pretty sure she relies a lot on this 6 iron mine and she must have at least 6-7 iron based units.

    The other alternative is going for St. Petersburg after Yakutsk. Which one could be better though?
     
  8. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    You are Japan and you have stronger melee units. I'm sure she can't hurt you enough if you directly go for Moscow. Getting Yaroslav first means that she might build more and more units from his biggest cities and you might struggle even more(what if she only has 4 iron units?). Get capital before she gets longswords.

    Cut his leg before his arm ;)
     
  9. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    Okay, I shall try this. I will keep the save game, and test both ways, (Yaroslavl first, or Moscow directly). If anyone wants to try it too, I can upload the save file. It's a no mod, all DLC game.
     
  10. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    I know it might sound counter-intuitive, but use knights for rough terrain. Two moves in hills is better than one. An knights can get rough terrain promos as well.
     
  11. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    Yes, but first of all, Samurais will get me a super fast Great General, due to their ability. And I think it's a bit too late now to wait to go to Chivalry. Russia will catch up pretty quickly...

    Edit: And let's not forget their weakness against cities, and weakness against pikemen, which Russia seems to have plenty of. Maybe if I went there earlier? It's really, really hard, impossible I think, to be at knights before the AI spams out Pikes.
     
  12. animalguy

    animalguy Ermahgerd

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    Reload map as Inca. You can kiss all your rough terrain issues goodbye :wavey:
     
  13. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Warlord

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    Sometimes I fight a war of attrition (if I can afford it), especially now in Gods and Kings. Get a whole bunch of units, and get the AI to spend ranged attacks on the units you want them to (possibly moving units back to heal before the AI can kill them, although it might be tough on that terrain). Siege units (and bombardment in general) seems stronger in Gods and Kings, if you can get a siege engine up next to his cities and a few ranged units, you only need very few melee units to actually take the city (use those Samurai to suppress the Russian ground forces while your siege engines concentrate on the cities). Once the city is down low enough, move in a Samurai for the kill.

    Basically, you need enough units to soak up all the ranged attacks you'll be taking while moving over all that terrain. I have to say that's quite the nightmare map setup, though.
     
  14. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    I did a test, and managed to capture Moscow on turn 124, after getting to Yakutsk first, then Yaroslavl down south. Pillaging her 6 iron mine really made a difference, as she had about 6 Swordsmen with the Strategic Resource penalty. It was extremely tough approaching Moscow from both sides. I barely managed to get a single samurai from the north side (without it being butchered by multiple hits from pikemen, CB, and the city itself). Most of my troops went from the south, because there were a few less hills, but still there was this annoying river the really slowed things down. It almost felt like she had the GW.

    But even before I get Moscow, apart from the unhappiness hit that I had by owning the two small cities, I got chain denounced for no apparent reason from one friend (Sweden) and two other civs. Then, right after I took Moscow, I got DOWed by Sweden, and his two CS allies, which are located right next to me. I guess that the only thing I can do is abandon the war with Russia, raze at least one of the small cities, and heavily focus on defending myself from Sweden.

    I will try again, going directly for Moscow, but as you said, it's a complete nightmare with all that rough terrain around.

    Anyone up to the challenge of trying this yet?
     
  15. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    Send your savegame file :)
     
  16. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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  17. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    Played this fast(going to work in some min).

    Spoiler :


    I didn't bother about AI deals or happiness problems after taking capital(i immediately saved the game).

    Moscow is doable but i lost some units during process. I did pillaged the 6 iron tile but gave me absolutely nothing useful because i fought almost only horsemen and pikemen. But why attacking Russians while they are at war against Ottomans when you can get this beautiful land from Sweden to your right? :p

    Here is the save :
     

    Attached Files:

  18. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    I'd still have to go through all that jungle in order to get to the Swedes. Also, they were allied with Jerusalem, which would definitely cause me problems down south. Plus, being friends with Sweden grants you the +10% Great People generation.

    Did you try to just storm your way through with Samurais in front, CBs/Trebuchets right behind them? Also, did you build any extra Samurais in the process?
     
  19. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

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    1)Yes
    2)No
     
  20. JamesCivFan

    JamesCivFan King

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    I will try it right now and inform of the results.
     

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