What do you think about the icon of Spain?

[El Castellano]

What do you think if we leave the discussion of what that looks like or not to Felipe II, and we return to the topic of the thread?

 

[Plus Ultra]

i meant ~40% mexicans are of spanish descent and mexican culture is based on spanish isnt it

Sorry Killmeplease, I have no intention of diving into such a topic.

I added portraits and the mexican actor photo I was recognizing. Warning: it may ruin your experience.

Spoiler :

I'm afraid you are trying too hard to push your argument here LastSword, comparing a caricature with a photo and a painting seems futile at best. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here anyway.

Both Elcastellano and myslef are Spaniards, and we see no problem whatsoever with Philipp II model.

What do you think if we leave the discussion of what that looks like or not to Felipe II, and we return to the topic of the thread?

Agreed

 

[LastSword]

I'm afraid you are trying too hard to push your argument here LastSword, comparing a caricature with a photo and a painting seems futile at best. Not sure what you are trying to accomplish here anyway.

Well, I was only asked why I see Mexican there, so I don't understand your reaction. Nose, mouth, ears, eyes - looks like taken from this actor for me. There's no argument there. Chill down, please. I am not accomplishing anything, just explaining my point of view.

I don't care if Spaniards are ok with the leaderscene, I only pointed out why I dislike it.

That's it. Continue your topic.

 

[Cerilis]

Meh, I'd also wish Germany was Black/Gold with the imperial eagle or something, but what can one do. ^^"

 

[El Castellano]

Well, I hope that Ed and his team end up reconsidering the icon and change it by one more suitable, as they did with teddy and his dewlap.

 

[Plus Ultra]

There's no argument there.

Let's just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[anandus]

Especially with the strong HRE alignment this time around, I'm surprised they didn't go for the imperial eagle

After the arguments in Civ5 over which country has the right to have an eagle (Poland! Austria! Russia! Germany! The Byzantines! Napoleon!), I can imagine they're skippings eagles altogether this iteration

 

[ThisNameIsTooLo]

It's a bunch of bull. They are blatantly steering Spain in the wrong direction. I'd say Spain aficionados have a legitimate beef with the designers.

It's an udder cow-tastrophe, is what it is.

 

[benjamin28]

Aren't we all sure that icon is one of the new religious "neutral" icons (astrological signs) and things got misplaced in this build?

 

[Sonmi]

Seems weird. It's just a modern sporting symbol, no? Kinda like giving France a rooster. I've always wanted to see the Burgundian saltire for Spain, especially now that we have a Hapsburg leader.

The rooster is not modern though, it's older than France itself.

Gaul is said to be named Gaul by the Romans because of the local population possessing an surprising amount of poultry, Gaul being supposedly derived from the Latin Galli and all. The bird was then repeatedly associated with the French by their enemies and rivals, and was eventually embraced by the French themselves.

While I do think it would be more accurate to give it to the Gauls if they are ever added as a Civ, I honestly wouldn't mind France being represented by a Gallic rooster. It's a refreshing choice of a heraldic animal, especially considering the over-abundance of lions, bears, dragons, and ESPECIALLY eagles.

 

[El Castellano]

Aren't we all sure that icon is one of the new religious "neutral" icons (astrological signs) and things got misplaced in this build?

I'm 100% sure this is the icon of Spain in the livestream of yesterday.

 

[Thormodr]

It's an udder cow-tastrophe, is what it is.

Indeed. They need to take the bull by the horns and settle this once and for all.

Incidentally, I don't have a problem with the bull. Spain, strong like bull! has a certain ring to it.

 

[AliasMittens]

Habsburgs are not even Spanish in first place, so try connect them with Mexicans. Glad to be on internet.

Okay.

 

[Aristos]

Indeed. They need to take the bull by the horns and settle this once and for all.

Incidentally, I don't have a problem with the bull. Spain, strong like bull! has a certain ring to it.

For someone that knows at least a little about their history, or cares about it, the symbol is just a representation of blatant ignorance.

It would be like using an egg for the American symbol, because their most popular sport is played with the hands and an egg... or using a stick for the Canadian symbol... yes, exactly, completely ignorant.

I can understand some (many?) of them feeling a little offended, especially given their rich history from which meaningful symbols are very easy to grab.

Someone argued that the bull is a Celtic-Iberian icon, which is true, but they are not adding the Celtiberians to Civ 6, they are adding the Spanish Empire. Thus, argument even if true is still invalid.

 

[Adder]

Guess we're Borgias now?

Spoiler :

 

[Aristos]

Guess we're Borgias now?

Spoiler :

At first I thought, "that is ONE stupid looking bull right there", but then I noticed the leafs that the bull is chewing, and man, it hit me.

The bull is high from all that hemp chewing.

 

[Thormodr]

For someone that knows at least a little about their history, or cares about it, the symbol is just a representation of blatant ignorance.

It would be like using an egg for the American symbol, because their most popular sport is played with the hands and an egg... or using a stick for the Canadian symbol... yes, exactly, completely ignorant.

I can understand some (many?) of them feeling a little offended, especially given their rich history from which meaningful symbols are very easy to grab.

It would seem that separatists seem to identify the bull with Spain proper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_bull

Now, while it is a fairly recent thing, people who bash modernity and claim that everything that is new is bad and corrupt are obviously wrong.

The Osborne Bull vs The Catalan Donkey

You may well have seen the two symbols of the Catalan donkey and the Osborne bull, although it has to be admitted that the Osborne bull is probably more universally recognized, much to the Catalan donkey’s despair! But where did the rivalry between these two animal symbols come from in the first place?
Osborne

Have you ever driven around Spain and spotted a large silhouette of a black bull on the top of a hillside? That is what is known as the Osborne bull, and it is the unofficial symbol of Spain. These came about as advertising for the Osborne sherry company, who started to put these bulls up by major roads in Spain in 1956 to advertise their “Brandy de Jerez”. The originals were black with red advertising on them, but slightly smaller in size. When the law was passed to prohibit all advertising within 150 m from the road, the bulls were made bigger. When another law was passed in 1994 to make all roadside advertising illegal, the bulls were set to be removed. In the end due to the majority of the public objecting that the bulls had become part of the landscape, the government agreed to black the bulls out completely to hide the previous advertising, as they had gained "aesthetic or cultural significance" and were now part of Spain’s cultural and artistic heritage.

http://www.enforex.com/culture/osborne-bull-catalan-donkey.html

Let's see here. A Spanish website promoting Spanish culture.

Symbols

There are several symbols that form part of the traditional culture in Spain. Some are more noticeable and common than others but each has an emotional or historical significance that has kept the attention of audiences all around the world, as well as meaning a lot to the Spanish people to whom they belong. These important symbols must be understood if you are going to get a true grasp on the culture of Spain itself, as they are something that most Spanish people would understand right away. It is also true that this means that you will stand out as an outsider right away if you do not recognise them, even if you have worked hard for many years on developing the perfect Spanish accent to sound as though you are a native speaker rather than an English speaker!

Bull
Windmill
Oso madroño
Catalan Donkey-Osborne Bull
Spanish Flag

Interesting that a Spanish website promoting Spanish culture would choose the bull primarily as a symbol of Spain.

 

[Aristos]

It would seem that separatists seem to identify the bull with Spain proper:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_bull

Now, while it is a fairly recent thing, people who bash modernity and claim that everything that is new is bad and corrupt are obviously wrong.



http://www.enforex.com/culture/osborne-bull-catalan-donkey.html

Let's see here. A Spanish website promoting Spanish culture.





Interesting that a Spanish website promoting Spanish culture would choose the bull primarily as a symbol of Spain.

All those sources are valid, and so are their opinions. First and foremost, the list does not say anything about priorities, so the bull being in first place means exactly nothing. But yes, the bull is part of the culture, nobody is arguing against that, but using it as the symbol of the Spanish Empire that is supposed to be portrayed in civ 6 is wrong. They are not symbolizing Spanish (popular?) culture, they are symbolizing the Spanish Empire.

Nevertheless, I am not a Spaniard, although I have 25% of them, and a part of their culture indirectly, so I will leave it to them to argue for/against this issue. I just can see where Castellano is coming from, and sympathize with him.

 

[Depravo]

I would argue against the triple-towered castle mentioned by some on this thread, as this only represents Castilla and not the other parts of Spain.

Well yeah, but at least it originates from within the Iberian peninsula. Unlike the ragged cross.

 

[Liex]

I didn't like Brazil's icon, but now I guess I should be happy it's not a soccer ball or a carnival mask.