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What do you think about the icon of Spain?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by El Castellano, Sep 7, 2016.

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What do you think about the icon of Spain?

Poll closed Oct 7, 2016.
  1. I love it, if Spain should be defined in three words would be: Bulls, Paella and Olé

    29 vote(s)
    14.2%
  2. I do not mind it.

    64 vote(s)
    31.4%
  3. I do not mind it, but I would have preferred a historical icon.

    71 vote(s)
    34.8%
  4. I do not like it, it is a touristic and Modern icon, it should not represent to Spain.

    40 vote(s)
    19.6%
  1. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Exactly.
     
  2. elprofesor

    elprofesor Pluri-editing poster

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    Actually, more than the bull (which, meh), I was a bit disappointed by the representation of Felipe. He was the most boring, pious, reclusive person you could imagine, and here... he's some sort of hotblooded charmer? Huh. I mean, sure, it's more amusing this way, so it's probably better, but it feels weird.
     
  3. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    No one is telling any Spanish people what to think. The poll asked what we think and that's all. We don't have a mind control machine. Yet...;)
     
  4. elprofesor

    elprofesor Pluri-editing poster

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    I was thinking about statements such as this one:

    You are not Spanish yourself, right? If actual Spanish people here tell you that they see a problem, and your answer is, "I think Spanish people don't see a problem", well, it comes across as weird. It's not a big deal, but still, you should avoid doing that (not just with Spanish people, but with any other group you are not part of).
     
  5. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Dicho como un autentico Profesor! I fully agree.
     
  6. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    I was expressing my opinion based off of what Spanish people themselves are saying. I didn't make anything up and used links. If you don't like people expressing opinions on an internet forum then I think that there are bigger problems than symbolic bulls for you to deal with. ;)
     
  7. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    Oh come on man, you know perfectly well that he was not saying anything like that. I live close to you, you and me know very well how locals would react if anyone starts to lecture them on what symbolizes their history better... you know exactly what I mean.

    He is just saying that. No different from us around here, my fellow canuck.
     
  8. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Actually, as Canadians, we may be proud of our country but we are not especially nationalistic. Having lived in a few other countries, I can assure you that I prefer the low key nationalism of Canada and couldn't care less if people think we all live in igloos or think we are clones of our neighbours down South. Lol.

    If Canada ever makes it into Civ VI, I am sure the symbol will be the maple leaf. If other people think it should be something different, more power to them. Doesn't hurt me one bit and it could be easily changed in a mod. Whatever the case, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. (ie Canada actually being in the game.)

    Anyway, I prefer the attitude of the Spanish poster that is very happy that Spain is in the base game and has such powerful abilities. He is grateful for that and considers the issue of Spain's symbol to be of minor importance. :)
     
  9. plasmacannon

    plasmacannon Emperor

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    Toronto is in Civilization 6 as a City State and shown on the map at this link.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=572568

    It is mentioned that, "Toronto (Industrial) Regional effects from your Industrial Zone and Entertainment Complex districts reach 3 tiles farther" on the link below, under City States.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=567144

    So I guess that means we won't be getting a unique maple syrup resource from them. :(
    Neither link mentioned their symbol.
    If they have one, I'd agree with you, it would likely be the maple leaf.
     
  10. Aristos

    Aristos Lightseeker

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    True. But that is not the right parallelism. I can imagine the reaction of many people here if El Castellano comes and tells us that we should be using the American Eagle as symbol "because we are just clones of our neighbours down South". Now THAT is LOL. :lol:

    Or closer to this thread's topic, if he tells us that we should use a mug of Tim Hortons instead of the maple leaf "because it's more popular"... he.

    Anyways, let's hear them. It's their history.
     
  11. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    I don't think anyone would suggest the American Eagle (Bald Eagle) as that is so strongly associated with the USA. That is even though there are plenty of Bald Eagles in Canada. I would know since I regularly got woken up by the screeching of baby eaglets when I stayed at my parent's place. They had a nest in their back yard. :crazyeye:

    Perhaps a better example might be a pair of moose antlers or a beaver pelt. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that as Canada was built on the fur industry and there are a lot of moose here. Some Canadians might be offended as they are anti-fur/anti-trapping.

    Similarly, there are Spaniards that don't like the bull symbol since it is associated with bullfighting and a lot of the younger generation are less enthusiastic about that then the younger generation. Nonwithstanding that, it is still a popular symbol in Spain.

    Anyway, all I have done is offered my opinion and used examples put forth by the Spanish tourism industry. If you feel strongly about this, take it up with the Spanish tourism industry. I have already said that I don't really care what the symbol is for Spain but I can understand why Firaxis chose what they did. The bull is fairly commonly associated with Spain and relatively few other cultures except perhaps Minoa and Texas. When they enter the game, then we will have an identity problem. :D
     
  12. nunor

    nunor King

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    You forgot to mention Sumer which, incidentally, is in the game.
     
  13. GeoModder

    GeoModder Deity

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    My thoughts exactly. Maybe, just maybe the bull symbol is a placeholder until Sumer is ready to be shown.
     
  14. stealth_nsk

    stealth_nsk Deity

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    I thought Sumerians were much more into Lions than Bulls.
     
  15. Siptah

    Siptah Eternal Chieftain

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    Gilgamesh, together with Enkidu, killed the Bull of Heaven, which is very often depicted. Not as often as lions are in Sumerian art though. I doubt they get a bull symbol.
    Edit: nearly all sumerian depictions of Gilgamesh are actually that very scene.
    Edit: Spain is not the first thing I thought when seeing the icon, other icons are easier to understand on first glance.
     
  16. El Castellano

    El Castellano Warlord

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    There is peace, the blood should not reach the river.

    This is an issue to see what they think all CivFanatics, regardless of the nationality of each of them. Constructive arguments are accepted both of which have a position in favor, against, or neutral about the icon. If someone makes a mistake or is based on a bad argument he/she will be corrected without much problem and continue with the issue. So far the debate is very interesting and I would like that it follow as well.

    I would like that nobody put words in my mouth which I never said, either by an example or not.

    I mentioned earlier that the Iberians can be also represented by the bull, please do not confuse the Iberians with the Spaniards. And also where it came from the fact that Spain would represent by the bull abroad (Brand Spain). In addition to explaining why use as a reliable source the opinion of the separatists to know the symbols of the country which they want to separate it is not a good idea. I recommend that you read it again.
     
  17. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    I don't really care about this topic at all but to add to the debate, If you asked me to come up with a symbol for Spain - the bull wouldn't have even crossed my mind until I noticed this topic. Even Despite knowing that bulls are prominent in their culture.

    The castle mentioned on the first page would have been my first thought. However, if the Leader Poster thread is anything to go by, Firaxis seems to jump on one of the first few images that pop up in a google search so I guess googling "Spanish Symbol" solves why they went with the bull.
     
  18. El Castellano

    El Castellano Warlord

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    Another symbol could be the wind rose, invented by the Majorcan Raimundo Lulio (patron of Spanish computer engineers).
     
  19. DeutschDachs

    DeutschDachs King

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    I don't really mind that it's a bull, however, the symbol is very chunky, fat, and not very detailed. I would prefer a bull with more stylization akin to Civ IV's Sumeria's bull if they wanted to go the bull direction
     
  20. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    I was not aware that Sumeria was especially associated with Bulls. Can you show me evidence of that? :)

    I know that Babylon had some winged anthropromorphic bulls but that's a different time and culture.

    Edit: I did a search on Sumerian bull of heaven images. Not many normal bulls but lots of bulls with man's heads.
     

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