What do you think about the icon of Spain?

[Aristos]

I am amused by non-Spanish people here telling Spanish people what they should think about the bull representing their civ

Exactly.

 

[elprofesor]

Actually, more than the bull (which, meh), I was a bit disappointed by the representation of Felipe. He was the most boring, pious, reclusive person you could imagine, and here... he's some sort of hotblooded charmer? Huh. I mean, sure, it's more amusing this way, so it's probably better, but it feels weird.

 

[Thormodr]

I am Spanish, and pretty much agree with everything Josephias wrote here. I don't mind the bull per se (there are worse choices), but the specific bull they've chosen is horrible. I think Texas before I think Spain. And most of the other options mentioned here would have been better. I particularly like the Hercules pillars idea, I think it's great, but the Castle or Santiago's cross would have been ok too. Ah well.

I am amused by non-Spanish people here telling Spanish people what they should think about the bull representing their civ

No one is telling any Spanish people what to think. The poll asked what we think and that's all. We don't have a mind control machine. Yet...

 

[elprofesor]

I was thinking about statements such as this one:

I do think that if you did a poll on the Spanish street about what the symbol of Spain is, a majority would say the bull. So, I would think that most people, Spanish or not, wouldn't have a problem with the bull portraying Spain in Civ VI.

You are not Spanish yourself, right? If actual Spanish people here tell you that they see a problem, and your answer is, "I think Spanish people don't see a problem", well, it comes across as weird. It's not a big deal, but still, you should avoid doing that (not just with Spanish people, but with any other group you are not part of).

 

[Aristos]

You are not Spanish yourself, right? If actual Spanish people here tell you that they see a problem, and your answer is, "I think Spanish people don't see a problem", well, it comes across as weird. It's not a big deal, but still, you should avoid doing that (not just with Spanish people, but with any other group you are not part of).

Dicho como un autentico Profesor! I fully agree.

 

[Thormodr]

I was thinking about statements such as this one:



You are not Spanish yourself, right? If actual Spanish people here tell you that they see a problem, and your answer is, "I think Spanish people don't see a problem", well, it comes across as weird. It's not a big deal, but still, you should avoid doing that (not just with Spanish people, but with any other group you are not part of).

I was expressing my opinion based off of what Spanish people themselves are saying. I didn't make anything up and used links. If you don't like people expressing opinions on an internet forum then I think that there are bigger problems than symbolic bulls for you to deal with.

 

[Aristos]

I was expressing my opinion based off of what Spanish people themselves are saying. I didn't make anything up and used links. If you don't like people expressing opinions on an internet forum then I think that there are bigger problems than symbolic bulls for you to deal with.

Oh come on man, you know perfectly well that he was not saying anything like that. I live close to you, you and me know very well how locals would react if anyone starts to lecture them on what symbolizes their history better... you know exactly what I mean.

He is just saying that. No different from us around here, my fellow canuck.

 

[Thormodr]

Oh come on man, you know perfectly well that he was not saying anything like that. I live close to you, you and me know very well how locals would react if anyone starts to lecture them on what symbolizes their history better... you know exactly what I mean.

He is just saying that. No different from us around here, my fellow canuck.

Actually, as Canadians, we may be proud of our country but we are not especially nationalistic. Having lived in a few other countries, I can assure you that I prefer the low key nationalism of Canada and couldn't care less if people think we all live in igloos or think we are clones of our neighbours down South. Lol.

If Canada ever makes it into Civ VI, I am sure the symbol will be the maple leaf. If other people think it should be something different, more power to them. Doesn't hurt me one bit and it could be easily changed in a mod. Whatever the case, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. (ie Canada actually being in the game.)

Anyway, I prefer the attitude of the Spanish poster that is very happy that Spain is in the base game and has such powerful abilities. He is grateful for that and considers the issue of Spain's symbol to be of minor importance.

 

[plasmacannon]

Toronto is in Civilization 6 as a City State and shown on the map at this link.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=572568

It is mentioned that, "Toronto (Industrial) Regional effects from your Industrial Zone and Entertainment Complex districts reach 3 tiles farther" on the link below, under City States.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=567144

So I guess that means we won't be getting a unique maple syrup resource from them.
Neither link mentioned their symbol.
If they have one, I'd agree with you, it would likely be the maple leaf.

 

[Aristos]

Actually, as Canadians, we may be proud of our country but we are not especially nationalistic. Having lived in a few other countries, I can assure you that I prefer the low key nationalism of Canada and couldn't care less if people think we all live in igloos or think we are clones of our neighbours down South. Lol.

True. But that is not the right parallelism. I can imagine the reaction of many people here if El Castellano comes and tells us that we should be using the American Eagle as symbol "because we are just clones of our neighbours down South". Now THAT is LOL.

Or closer to this thread's topic, if he tells us that we should use a mug of Tim Hortons instead of the maple leaf "because it's more popular"... he.

Anyways, let's hear them. It's their history.

 

[Thormodr]

True. But that is not the right parallelism. I can imagine the reaction of many people here if El Castellano comes and tells us that we should be using the American Eagle as symbol "because we are just clones of our neighbours down South". Now THAT is LOL.

Or closer to this thread's topic, if he tells us that we should use a mug of Tim Hortons instead of the maple leaf "because it's more popular"... he.

Anyways, let's hear them. It's their history.

I don't think anyone would suggest the American Eagle (Bald Eagle) as that is so strongly associated with the USA. That is even though there are plenty of Bald Eagles in Canada. I would know since I regularly got woken up by the screeching of baby eaglets when I stayed at my parent's place. They had a nest in their back yard.

Perhaps a better example might be a pair of moose antlers or a beaver pelt. Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that as Canada was built on the fur industry and there are a lot of moose here. Some Canadians might be offended as they are anti-fur/anti-trapping.

Similarly, there are Spaniards that don't like the bull symbol since it is associated with bullfighting and a lot of the younger generation are less enthusiastic about that then the younger generation. Nonwithstanding that, it is still a popular symbol in Spain.

Anyway, all I have done is offered my opinion and used examples put forth by the Spanish tourism industry. If you feel strongly about this, take it up with the Spanish tourism industry. I have already said that I don't really care what the symbol is for Spain but I can understand why Firaxis chose what they did. The bull is fairly commonly associated with Spain and relatively few other cultures except perhaps Minoa and Texas. When they enter the game, then we will have an identity problem.

 

[nunor]

The bull is fairly commonly associated with Spain and relatively few other cultures except perhaps Minoa and Texas. When they enter the game, then we will have an identity problem.

You forgot to mention Sumer which, incidentally, is in the game.

 

[GeoModder]

My thoughts exactly. Maybe, just maybe the bull symbol is a placeholder until Sumer is ready to be shown.

 

[stealth_nsk]

You forgot to mention Sumer which, incidentally, is in the game.

I thought Sumerians were much more into Lions than Bulls.

 

[Siptah]

Gilgamesh, together with Enkidu, killed the Bull of Heaven, which is very often depicted. Not as often as lions are in Sumerian art though. I doubt they get a bull symbol.
Edit: nearly all sumerian depictions of Gilgamesh are actually that very scene.
Edit: Spain is not the first thing I thought when seeing the icon, other icons are easier to understand on first glance.

 

[El Castellano]

You are not Spanish yourself, right? If actual Spanish people here tell you that they see a problem, and your answer is, "I think Spanish people don't see a problem", well, it comes across as weird. It's not a big deal, but still, you should avoid doing that (not just with Spanish people, but with any other group you are not part of).

There is peace, the blood should not reach the river.

This is an issue to see what they think all CivFanatics, regardless of the nationality of each of them. Constructive arguments are accepted both of which have a position in favor, against, or neutral about the icon. If someone makes a mistake or is based on a bad argument he/she will be corrected without much problem and continue with the issue. So far the debate is very interesting and I would like that it follow as well.

True. But that is not the right parallelism. I can imagine the reaction of many people here if El Castellano comes and tells us that we should be using the American Eagle as symbol "because we are just clones of our neighbours down South". Now THAT is LOL.

Or closer to this thread's topic, if he tells us that we should use a mug of Tim Hortons instead of the maple leaf "because it's more popular"... he.

I would like that nobody put words in my mouth which I never said, either by an example or not.

Anyway, all I have done is offered my opinion and used examples put forth by the Spanish tourism industry. If you feel strongly about this, take it up with the Spanish tourism industry. I have already said that I don't really care what the symbol is for Spain but I can understand why Firaxis chose what they did. The bull is fairly commonly associated with Spain and relatively few other cultures except perhaps Minoa and Texas. When they enter the game, then we will have an identity problem.

I mentioned earlier that the Iberians can be also represented by the bull, please do not confuse the Iberians with the Spaniards. And also where it came from the fact that Spain would represent by the bull abroad (Brand Spain). In addition to explaining why use as a reliable source the opinion of the separatists to know the symbols of the country which they want to separate it is not a good idea. I recommend that you read it again.

 

[King Jason]

I don't really care about this topic at all but to add to the debate, If you asked me to come up with a symbol for Spain - the bull wouldn't have even crossed my mind until I noticed this topic. Even Despite knowing that bulls are prominent in their culture.

The castle mentioned on the first page would have been my first thought. However, if the Leader Poster thread is anything to go by, Firaxis seems to jump on one of the first few images that pop up in a google search so I guess googling "Spanish Symbol" solves why they went with the bull.

 

[El Castellano]

Another symbol could be the wind rose, invented by the Majorcan Raimundo Lulio (patron of Spanish computer engineers).

 

[DeutschDachs]

I don't really mind that it's a bull, however, the symbol is very chunky, fat, and not very detailed. I would prefer a bull with more stylization akin to Civ IV's Sumeria's bull if they wanted to go the bull direction

 

[Thormodr]

You forgot to mention Sumer which, incidentally, is in the game.

I was not aware that Sumeria was especially associated with Bulls. Can you show me evidence of that?

I know that Babylon had some winged anthropromorphic bulls but that's a different time and culture.

Edit: I did a search on Sumerian bull of heaven images. Not many normal bulls but lots of bulls with man's heads.