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What do you think about the icon of Spain?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by El Castellano, Sep 7, 2016.

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What do you think about the icon of Spain?

Poll closed Oct 7, 2016.
  1. I love it, if Spain should be defined in three words would be: Bulls, Paella and Olé

    29 vote(s)
    14.2%
  2. I do not mind it.

    64 vote(s)
    31.4%
  3. I do not mind it, but I would have preferred a historical icon.

    71 vote(s)
    34.8%
  4. I do not like it, it is a touristic and Modern icon, it should not represent to Spain.

    40 vote(s)
    19.6%
  1. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    May be referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_bull#Mesopotamia
     
  2. nunor

    nunor King

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  3. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Thanks for the relies, all. I shall take this into consideration.
     
  4. elprofesor

    elprofesor Pluri-editing poster

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    Oh, I have no problem with people expressing their opinion, that's fine. But saying "Spanish people don't have a problem with this symbol" is not an opinion, it's a statement of fact, and as such you should be prepared to be challenged about it.

    For the record, the office of tourism is obviously not a good enough source for your claim. It's geared towards foreigners, and offers a very simplistic view of the country. I don't even have a problem with the bull per se (even though there are better symbols), I have a problem with this bull. Unless it's referring to pre-Spanish Iberian cults, which huh would still be weird.

    Again, it's not a big deal, and I am overall happy with how Spain is represented, but eh, I am bored.

    To give you Canadian examples, imagine if the symbol was a hockey stick, or an inuksuk, or an inverted maple leaf. Not a big deal, but still offputting (each one for different reasons).

    *sigh*

    You can be Mallorqui and Spanish at the same time. If you don't believe so, you are actually proving the point the separatists are making. Please call him Ramon Llull.

    This is very off-topic, so I won't continue this discussion, but please do think about it.
     
  5. El Castellano

    El Castellano Warlord

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    First, if you do not think about the fact that a person is Mallorcan, Catalan, Castilian-Manchego, or Andalusian implies that that person is Spanish, it is you who thinks like a separatist.

    Second, by the context it is understood that I think Raimundo Lulio is Spanish.

    Third, Ramon Llull in Catalan, Raimundo Lulio in Castilian, Raimundus or Raymundus Lullus in Latin, رامون لول in Arabic, Raymond Lully in English and Raymond Lulle in French are the same person, and all these names are equally respectful.
     
  6. elprofesor

    elprofesor Pluri-editing poster

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    Your first paragraph is in agreement with what I said, actually. I was saying that he was Spanish because he was Mallorqui. That does not make him any less Mallorqui though.

    For your third paragraph, no. Your name does not depend on the language people are speaking. It is what it is. If your name is Miguel, it doesn't suddenly become Mike because you are talking to an American.

    Anyway I will definitely stop talking about this, sorry.
     
  7. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    That's a very modern and culture-bound view of the subject. Historically, names often were translated. Why do you think we have King Philip II of Spain and not Felipe II, or Francis I of France rather than François Ier? Historically it was typical to use the local version of one's name; that's only changed in the last century or two.
     
  8. elprofesor

    elprofesor Pluri-editing poster

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    I actually dislike that too, I would prefer to have leaders' names in their original form (as much as possible), but don't really expect to ever get that.

    Hey at least I am self-consistent :p
     
  9. Zaarin

    Zaarin Chief Medical Officer, DS9

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    Fair enough: I wouldn't mind seeing native names myself. But if Felipe and François had visited England in their time, they would have been known as Philip and Francis. ;) Just pointing out that historically people did change their names based on location, even if that's regarded as unusual now.
     
  10. Loaf Warden

    Loaf Warden (no party affiliation)

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    I admit the first thing I thought of when I saw the bull symbol was this:



    I can't say I have a very strong opinion on this one. Overall, I had been hoping they would move away from the bland and limiting "two-color icon" option in favor of A) allowing as many colors as needed to depict more detailed and less stylized symbols, or B) getting rid of the icons altogether, since in my view they don't really add anything to the game. But since they're staying with it, I would prefer wherever possible they use something so strongly associated with the civ in question that seeing the icon would make you think of that civ even if you didn't know it was their in-game symbol. A bull's head for Spain does not do that. I understand wanting to move away from the Castilian castle from Civ IV and the slightly generic-seeming cross from Civ V. But while bulls have enough significance in Spanish culture that it's not necessarily meant as a direct reference to bullfighting, I still don't think it says "Spain" in the way that the fleur-de-lys says "France" and the cherry blossoms say "Japan".

    Of the many excellent suggestions put forth in this thread, my personal preference would be for the Pillars of Hercules with the "Plus Ultra" banner. If a mod came out that did nothing but change Spain's symbol to that, I would use it. The one I think I would most prefer not to see would be the Cross of Burgundy. I understand it was used by Spain in many capacities for a very long time, and is today considered an emblem of the Habsburgs (of whom Philip II is one) as much as anything else. But I hold out hope that someday an actual Burgundian civ might get released. The odds of that are probably not great, but if it did happen, then the Cross of Burgundy would look weird being the icon for Spain and not for Burgundy.
     
  11. Thormodr

    Thormodr Servant of Civ Supporter

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    Perhaps this is a language issue but I did say, "I think..."

    As for those Canadian symbols, no I would not be offended. :)
     

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