What do you think of the Leaders?

thecrazyscot

Spiffy
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Looking at the Leaders we have so far - what do you think of them?

Any you might gravitate towards playing?
Who do you think might be a nemesis?
Who are you already looking forward to being your best pal?
Who's going to be just annoying?

Here's a list of the Leaders and their Personas:

LeaderAbilityAgenda
Amina
Economic, Militaristic
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???
Ashoka, World Renouncer
Diplomatic, Expansionist
Dhammaraja: Adds Food in Cities for excess Happiness beyond a set amount. Increased Food in all Settlements during a Celebration. All Buildings gain a Happiness adjacency for all Improvements.Without Sorrow: Increase Relationship by a Medium Amount with the player with the highest Happiness yield. Decrease Relationship by a Medium Amount with the player that has the lowest Happiness yield.
Ashoka, World Conqueror*
Diplomatic, Militaristic
Devaraja: Increased Production in Cities for excess Happiness beyond a set amount. Increased Production in Settlements not founded by you. Declaring a Formal War grants a Celebration. Large increase to Combat Strength against Fortified Districts for all Units during a Celebration.Without Regret: Decrease Relationship by a Medium Amount with the Leader whose lands cover the most tiles and Increase Relationship by a Medium Amount for the one with the least.
Augustus
Cultural, Expansionist
Imperium Maius: Adds Production in the Capital for every Town. Increased Gold towards purchasing Buildings in Towns. Can purchase Culture Buildings in Towns.Restitutor Orbis: Decrease Relationship by a Medium Amount for each Town in other players' empires. Increase Relationship by a Medium Amount for each City (excluding Capital) in other players' empires.
Benjamin Franklin??????
Confucius
Expansionist, Scientific
Keju: Increased Growth Rate in Cities. Increased Science from Specialists.Guanxi: Increase Relationship by a Medium Amount for having the most Specialists in an empire. Decrease Relationship by a Small Amount for the leader with the least amount of Specialists in an empire. Only triggers if Confucius has at least one Specialist.
Hatshepsut
Cultural, Economic
God's Wife of Amun: Adds Culture for every imported Resource. Increased Production towards the construction of Buildings and Wonders in Cities adjacent to Navigable Rivers.Wonders of Iteru: Decrease Relationship by a Small Amount if you have more Wonders than Hatshepsut. Increase Relationship by a Medium Amount if you have less Wonders.
Himiko??????
Machiavelli
Diplomatic, Economic
Il Principe: Gain additional Influence per Age. Gain a set amount of Gold per Age when your Diplomatic Action proposals are accepted, or even more Gold per Age when they are rejected. Ignore Relationship requirements for declaring Formal Wars. You can Levy Military Units from City-States you are not Suzerain of.The Spider: If not at war with Machiavelli, increase Relationship by Medium Amount for each other war.
Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor*
Economic, Militaristic
Empereur des Français: Gain a unique Diplomatic Action that reduces the Trade Route capacity for a target civilization and causes massive Grievances. Bonus Gold per Age for every leader Napoleon is Unfriendly or Hostile with.???
Napoleon Bonaparte, Revolutionary*
Cultural, Militaristic
La Grande Armée: All army commanders gain extra movement. Gain Culture each time you defeat an enemy unit.???
Tecumseh*
Diplomatic, Economic
Nicaakiyakoolaakwe: Increased Food and Production per Age in Settlements for every City-State you are Suzerain of. Increased Combat Strength for all your Units for every City-State you are Suzerain of.Suzerain of the World: Decrease Relationship by a Large Amount when a player disperses an Independent, and Increase Relationship by a Small Amount if player does not have an active "Befriend Independent" Project active.
Trung Trac
Militaristic, Scientific
Hai Bà Trưng: Gain a set number of free Promotions on your first Commander. Your Commanders gain additional experience. Gain increased Science in Cities on Tropical tiles; this bonus is increased during any Formal War you declare.Van Minh: Decrease Relationship by Medium Amount with the player who has the greatest amount of Promotions across all Commanders. If tied, Decrease Relationship a Small Amount with tie holders. Increase Relationship by Medium Amount with the player who has the least amount of Promotions across all Commanders. If tied, Increase Relationship a Small Amount with tie holders.
Xerxes, King of Kings
Economic, Militaristic
Crusher of Rebellions: Increased Combat Strength for Units that are attacking in neutral or enemy territory. Gain Culture and Gold per Age upon capturing a Settlement for the first time. Gain increased Gold in all Settlements, increased even further in Settlements not founded by you. Increased Settlement limit per Age.Lord of Fire: Decrease Relationship by a Medium Amount when a player is not at war. Increase Relationship by a Small Amount when a player is at war.
Xerxes, The Achaemenid*
Cultural, Economic
Silk Road: Increased Trade Route limit with all other leaders. Creating a Trade Route or Road with a Merchant provides Culture and Gold per Age. Increased Culture and Gold per Age on Unique Buildings and Unique Improvements.Lord of Coin: Decrease Relationship by a Medium Amount if player has a greater or equal number of Trade Routes compared to Xerxes. Increase Relationship by a Small Amount if player has fewer Trade Routes than Xerxes.
* Not part of the Base game
 
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I think I might like playing Xerxes (The Achaemenid) or Amina - I love building trading empires.

Xerxes (King of Kings) might be a nemesis.

Ashoka (World Renouncer) could be a bro.

Napoleon (Emperor) I expect to be super annoying and someone I try to exterminate as quickly as possible.
 
I think Hatshepsut will probably be my leader for game number one. Simple bonuses that encourage engaging with simple new mechanics that could potentially synergies with many different civs. If that's the route I take, I hope I don't run into Xerxes when I'm trying to sim peacefully in Antiquity...
 
It’s really silly that Ben Franklin was chosen as the America representative just because he’s “different”. They could have gone with George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

Likewise having Confucius doesn’t communicate “we’re broadening who a leader is” it says “we don’t know anything about Chinese history and don’t want to learn”.
 
Likewise having Confucius doesn’t communicate “we’re broadening who a leader is” it says “we don’t know anything about Chinese history and don’t want to learn”.
I consider Confucius is standing not only for China itself, but also for the greater sinocentrism world based on Confucianism. He widely fit to most of East Asian civs well, quite a good choice for the Civ 7's civ-independent leader system.
 
I consider Confucius is standing not only for China itself, but also for the greater sinocentrism world based on Confucianism. He widely fit to most of East Asian civs well, quite a good choice for the Civ 7's civ-independent leader system.
A better fit? Just make Korean, Chinese, and Japanese emperors.
 
A better fit? Just make Korean, Chinese, and Japanese emperors.
We may see them later of course. But I'm satisfied with that FXS is trying to pick the leader from the founders of identities. Confucius who founded the Confucianism world, Ben Franklin who's one of the Founding Fathers of US, they deserve to lead people in the game and this is just the first chance to them. We always have seen emperors before and definitely will see them later too, just let's give these new leaders some front seats.
 
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It’s really silly that Ben Franklin was chosen as the America representative just because he’s “different”. They could have gone with George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

Likewise having Confucius doesn’t communicate “we’re broadening who a leader is” it says “we don’t know anything about Chinese history and don’t want to learn”.
I think Benjamin Franklin in an excellent choice. He was incredibly influential in the founding of the United States, being sometimes referred to as "The First American." He was one of the first to argue for extensive cooperation between the states as early as the Seven Year's War, acted as a voice for the colonies as a diplomat to England and France, signed the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and even helped edit them. I'd say the man who wrote "we hold these truths to be self evident" is an excellent representative for the United States. Through his survey work to his newspaper to his eventual cries for the abolition of slavery to his literal work as a diplomatic representative, Franklin had his finger on the pulse of New England, and his ideals match the direction that the country would take in its early years. Aside from the influence of his ideas, he also made direct contributions, creating civic infrastructure where he lived, starting the US postal service as the first Postmaster General, and oops almost forgot he was an inventor too! There's a reason his name is placed with presidents and his face marks the $100 bill. It's a challenge to find a page in a textbook on early US history that he's NOT mentioned in. He's well known, well liked, an interesting character in his own right, and incredibly versatile. The IDEAL civ leader. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets two personas on launch, and I certainly wouldn't be mad.
 
It’s really silly that Ben Franklin was chosen as the America representative just because he’s “different”. They could have gone with George Washington or Thomas Jefferson.

Likewise having Confucius doesn’t communicate “we’re broadening who a leader is” it says “we don’t know anything about Chinese history and don’t want to learn”.
Eh, they've built a decent record of actual rulers from past game iterations. If it's their first step into defining leaders as more than the usual rulers, then Confucius is about as good of a starting point as I'd expect. They can get more creative in future games if the concept sticks.

A better fit? Just make Korean, Chinese, and Japanese emperors.
...so your argument isn't really about "broadening who a leader is", huh.
 
I think Benjamin Franklin in an excellent choice. He was incredibly influential in the founding of the United States, being sometimes referred to as "The First American." He was one of the first to argue for extensive cooperation between the states as early as the Seven Year's War, acted as a voice for the colonies as a diplomat to England and France, signed the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, and even helped edit them. I'd say the man who wrote "we hold these truths to be self evident" is an excellent representative for the United States. Through his survey work to his newspaper to his eventual cries for the abolition of slavery to his literal work as a diplomatic representative, Franklin had his finger on the pulse of New England, and his ideals match the direction that the country would take in its early years. Aside from the influence of his ideas, he also made direct contributions, creating civic infrastructure where he lived, starting the US postal service as the first Postmaster General, and oops almost forgot he was an inventor too! There's a reason his name is placed with presidents and his face marks the $100 bill. It's a challenge to find a page in a textbook on early US history that he's NOT mentioned in. He's well known, well liked, an interesting character in his own right, and incredibly versatile. The IDEAL civ leader. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets two personas on launch, and I certainly wouldn't be mad.
Ben Franklin, God of Electricity persona would be shocking
 
They're alright I guess. Its a mixture of heroes, scientists and great people from civ 6 at least for some of them.
 
With all the leaders we see so far, I see that the leaders chosen this time around represent broader leadership archetypes and identities that can transcend different cultures with a similar, yet different direction than the philosphy of "big personalities" in civ 6. Trung Trac represents an underdog defiance against larger forces, Ashoka, World Renouncer represents a benevolent leader caring for the wellbeing of his citizens, Tecumseh represents the amicable leader who rallies his smaller allies against a shared threat, and so on. I hope the AI will be adaptable for leaders to represent civs in a way that goes smoothly. For example, playing against an Axum leady by Hatshepsut should be different from Axum lead by Amina, or Axum lead by Xerxes, Acheamanid.
 
Personally, the leaders aren't all that exciting to me so far... they're not going to be as game defining as the civs are going to be.

OTOH I really feel we have the tendency to downplay how important the improvement of leaders through the attributes system will really impact gameplay. But again, those attributes will be generic, not leader defining, so...

I don't know... I'm just much more interested in the civs than in the leaders
 
Eh, they've built a decent record of actual rulers from past game iterations. If it's their first step into defining leaders as more than the usual rulers, then Confucius is about as good of a starting point as I'd expect. They can get more creative in future games if the concept sticks.


...so your argument isn't really about "broadening who a leader is", huh.
My argument is that "broadening who a leader is" is ridiculous. If you wanted philosophers, scientists, or whatnot that's what Great People were for.

"Broadening the leaders" no it's retroactively justifying the fact that Gandhi has led an "India" civ for the past six games because the devs didn't know anything about Indian history and didn't care to learn because "haha Gandhi nuke is funny".
 
I will say after the first batch of leaders had a very ... um ... lacklustre design, that I am glad that it looks like that was just an exception because the others have been fantastic
 
My argument is that "broadening who a leader is" is ridiculous. If you wanted philosophers, scientists, or whatnot that's what Great People were for.

"Broadening the leaders" no it's retroactively justifying the fact that Gandhi has led an "India" civ for the past six games because the devs didn't know anything about Indian history and didn't care to learn because "haha Gandhi nuke is funny".
Well I think you are the one who don't know and don't try to learn or listen any others. Did you read the posts about Confucius and Ben Franklin above?
 
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