What do you think of the Leaders?

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I know it looks like we’re getting Frederick II (Hohenzollern not Hohenstaufen

I would have loved the Hohenstaufen Frederick II

one of those historical figures who should be much more better known

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I know it looks like we’re getting Frederick II (Hohenzollern not Hohenstaufen… sigh), but there’s already an enlightenment Europe warmonger and he has two personas. Goethe would be the best choice for a German leader imo. He could represent the cultural and philosophical side. Charlemagne can work for the militaristic side for now.

We are definitely getting someone named Friedrich with a sexual orientation that was deemed unusual in his culture, as cited by the ESRB rating blurb. If not Frederick II, then it's still someone from that area.

 

[j51]

We are definitely getting someone named Friedrich with a sexual orientation that was deemed unusual in his culture, as cited by the ESRB rating blurb. If not Frederick II, then it's still someone from that area.

I mean yeah that’s him. It just feels redundant having him and Napoleon both lol. It’s weird how many European leaders they’re adding but with so few European civs (relative to other regions). I would have 2-3-4 European civs per era and more leaders from other places.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I mean yeah that’s him. It just feels redundant having him and Napoleon both lol. It’s weird Joe many European leaders they’re adding but with so few European civs (relative to other regions). I would have 2-3-4 European civs per era and more leaders from other places.

I think that's the intended effect. It controls the overabundance of European civs on a TSL map (eventually), it allows civs from non-European places that maybe didn't have a good leader option to be represented. And you still get well-known Europeans.

 

[j51]

I think that's the intended effect. It controls the overabundance of European civs on a TSL map (eventually), it allows civs from non-European places that maybe didn't have a good leader option to be represented. And you still get well-known Europeans.

Yeah I like getting more civs from other places, I just wish it didn’t mean everybody’s Norman.

 

[Lord Lakely]

We are definitely getting someone named Friedrich with a sexual orientation that was deemed unusual in his culture, as cited by the ESRB rating blurb. If not Frederick II, then it's still someone from that area.

Friedrich Nietzsche!

 

[Guandao]

I think that's the intended effect. It controls the overabundance of European civs on a TSL map (eventually), it allows civs from non-European places that maybe didn't have a good leader option to be represented. And you still get well-known Europeans.

So far, the Mississippians don't have a good leader option. I think the rest of the non-European Civs in vanilla do have interesting or worthy leader choices.

 

[SeelingCat]

There's not tons of information about him, but the Mississippians could get Tuskaloosa, who I believe was a leader for modded Mississippian civs in both 5 and 6. There are a couple Muskogean languages that have a good number of speakers today, even.

 

[Willie5000]

I think that's the intended effect. It controls the overabundance of European civs on a TSL map (eventually), it allows civs from non-European places that maybe didn't have a good leader option to be represented. And you still get well-known Europeans.

Not sure how TSL would work in a game where you change civilizations every three gameplay acts.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Not sure how TSL would work in a game where you change civilizations every three gameplay acts.

presumably it uses the TSL of the civ you start with, whichever Age. The hard part is that there aren't enough civs in the Americas to make it the Home Lands yet.

 

[Krikkit1]

Not sure how TSL would work in a game where you change civilizations every three gameplay acts.

One of 2 ways...
1. True Start Location... if the Egyptians become the Mongols because they got some Horse supplies.. well that's what happened in this alternate history (like the Egyptians discovering gunpowder first or conquering the Iberian peninsula)
2. Location based unlocks... you are the Egyptians, if you want to unlock the Mongols you have to have a City in the right part of Central Asia* (your Capital City is in the location to unlock Abbasids)

The world is divided in to many different "continents" some are very large, some are small, each Modern or Exploration civ is unlocked by at least one "continent" (and every "continent" unlocks at least one Modern and one Exploration civ)

2 would require more advanced modding as DLC came out. 1 is ready to go.

 

[Morningcalm]

Counterpoints:
- Masa's kid is not an established name internationally, nor someone with great renown in Japan
- Himiko has a connection with the outside world, Masa's kid does not.
- The artist team would get hammered to make a bald woman look presentable and likable to the audience (how many people do you think have experience with that sort of thing in 2D or 3D?)
- Himiko does figure in Meiji period mythology much more heavily than the likes of Masa's kid.
- Houjou already got one of their people in the last Civ, Himiko is a new face outside of Vita's release of CivRev2 which practically no one present had played.
...

It's an absurd hill to choose to die upon.

I think you have the wrong Masako. I don't think it's "absurd" let alone a "hill" I've chosen to die "upon".

Masako is better because:
- She is better historically attested
- She wielded significant power as (in some accounts) being the true first shogun
- She has a background as a nun which is unique
- She was the wife of Minamoto Yoritomo, the first shogun.
- She is not overrepresented in media and is lesser known (this is a strength for historical games particularly)
- She was a political mastermind who wiped out numerous rivals (including a rumored mistress of the first shogun)
- She and her brother deposed her father when he tried to seize power after Yoritomo's death
- She shaved her head after overthrowing her father. She doesn't need to be portrayed as bald, and even if she was, you can easily put on headgear. Saying the artist team would "get hammered to make a bald woman look presentable and likable" is sexist and utterly ridiculous as a valid point. Are only pretty leaders in Civ? Psh.

For further reading, see:

Hojo Masako: Exploring the Incredible Life of Japan's 'Nun Shogun'

We take a look at the life of Hojo Masako, the wife of the first shogun and woman who came to be known as the “nun shogun.”

www.tokyoweekender.com

Hōjō Masako - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Wabnosa]

Michi Sipi has Tecumseh.

 

[Zaarin]

There's not tons of information about him, but the Mississippians could get Tuskaloosa, who I believe was a leader for modded Mississippian civs in both 5 and 6. There are a couple Muskogean languages that have a good number of speakers today, even.

Yes, Tuskaloosa would have been fun. Historically the Choctaw have been very protective of their language, but the Choctaw did the music for the Mississippians so they might have been open to working with Firaxis like the Shawnee did. Though at the moment I'm more disappointed we didn't get an Indigenous Mesoamerican leader. I would have much rather had K'inich Janaab' Pakal than Pachacuti TBH. (Though the design choice of giving the mountain bonuses to Pachacuti was interesting.)

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

As is often the case with SpaceCowboy, I do not know whether we're dealing with extreme trolling or extreme jingoism.

In all seriousness, I’m absolutely sincere in what I say. I’m aware that many of the civ fanatics won’t agree with me, and I don’t care; but the inverse is also true that they know that I won’t agree with their sincere opinions and yet they post them nonetheless. In such situations I’m no more trolling them than they are me. The only difference is that I’m clearly in the minority, at least on this particular forum. Whether it’s indicative of the fan base as a whole, I have no idea. But I know I’m not the only unapologetic Westerner, so I try to be a voice for others like me

 

[Siptah]

In all seriousness, I’m absolutely sincere in what I say. I’m aware that many of the civ fanatics won’t agree with me, and I don’t care; but the inverse is also true that they know that I won’t agree with their sincere opinions and yet they post them nonetheless. In such situations I’m no more trolling them than they are me. The only difference is that I’m clearly in the minority, at least on this particular forum. Whether it’s indicative of the fan base as a whole, I have no idea. But I know I’m not the only unapologetic Westerner, so I try to be a voice for others like me

And that's actually what I really cherish about you: the two of us seem to be at opposing ends on many issues, yet I've never felt that we had a problem with laying out our points and opinions, reading what the respective other wrote, and then to agree to disagree without spending too much time and energy trying to convince one another. Which also makes it easy for me to take you sincere and serious, in contrast to some people that come around as trolling to me. And it also makes me smile that, despite differences, there are also common interest (aside from the obvious one in the civ game). So, in short: my compliments for your attitude.

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

As is often the case with SpaceCowboy, I do not know whether we're dealing with extreme trolling or extreme jingoism.

What will be the 3rd civic group ? Extreme sports?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

What will be the 3rd civic group ?

Trawling.

Going deep to find an argument you don't get thrown back at you . . .

 

[SnowKomodo]

Tubman is one of my favorite leaders in a LONG time. Badass move by Firaxis

 

[SirMediocrity]

I like most of the leader choices so far. Tubman is one of the most famous black women and abolitionists in history and is very well-known in America... the hate against her inclusion is rather undeserved in my opinion, especially so since Civilization VII is already making a clear shift toward prioritizing people of cultural significance. Benjamin Franklin is also a good choice. He was a founding father, prolific inventor, and his face is on the $100 bill for goodness' sake. I kind of wish we had a U.S. president as a leader, but Tubman and Franklin are good choices, and we don't need more than two leaders for America. Machiavelli and Tecumseh are good additions to the game as well.