1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

What does the American Conservative stand for anymore?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Estebonrober, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,121
    Gender:
    Male
    What is their platform? Do they have any ideas to fix any ills perceived or otherwise? We all know their immigration stance these days. Their moral stances are all over the place now though. Their trade and economic stance is troubled and murky now. Their cohesion on topics as basic as the rule of law are troubled.

    What does the American Conservative believe in and is it splitting down libertarian/religious lines?

    This article reminded that there really aren't any policies coming from the right on much of anything. They can't even agree on what ills actually exist in society which is why all they could pass last cycle was the most unpopular tax cut of all time.

    Anyways it is an interesting read.

    https://www.vox.com/2019/6/5/18637391/david-french-sohrab-ahmari-conservatism-libertarians-divide

    During the Cold War, conservatism defined itself in its opposition to communism, and in the era of Trump, many conservatives appear to have defined themselves by their opposition to “the left” or liberalism more broadly, a phenomenon I’ve termed “reflexible anti-leftism.” But right now, many conservatives are talking and debating among themselves about what conservatism should be promoting, not just opposing, or, in the words of National Review founder William F. Buckley in 1955, “standing athwart, yelling stop.”

    Should conservatism support a limited government, even if that puts nuclear families at risk? Should conservatism support free markets, even if that means people can readily buy pornography that saps their moral virtue? What would conservative victory, real, true victory, look like? Who would lose if Ahmarian conservatism or Carlsonian conservatism or any of the conservatisms won? What kind of moral compromises should conservatives make to win a cultural or political battle? Should conservatism aim to persuade liberals or inoculate conservatives against liberalism? Should conservatism care what private citizens do in their bedrooms or boardrooms or places of worship?

    The debate over libertarianism and conservatism, and over Ahmari and French, isn’t just about what conservatives believe. It’s about what conservatism is.
     
  2. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2000
    Messages:
    17,076
    Location:
    the golf course
    There are factions that dont agree about some things, eg free traders, fair traders, and protectionists all claiming to be conservative.
     
  3. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    16,612
    There have always been lots of types. I like the conservationists generally. I like the guys that tolerate but generally personally detest the fine people with inflatable rats. I usually like a lot of the non evangelicals. There are types I think suck. Sort of like "liberals." Some of them are awesome. Some of them are likewise selfish monsters.
     
    yung.carl.jung and Socrates99 like this.
  4. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,839
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    I literally am one of these people, lol
     
  5. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    21,839
    Location:
    Sovereign State of the Have-Nots
    What did conservatism ever stand for? In the old world conservatism stood for the defense of monarchies and aristocracies and the church and patriarchy. In the US it has always stood for rationalizing the pretensions of whatever would-be aristocrats are currently trying to destroy democracy, and that's still what it stands for.
     
    Tolina, Fish Man, Cheetah and 4 others like this.
  6. Patine

    Patine Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,007
    What religion do you believe they're honestly espousing? Which religion are they properly adhering to, even remotely, in any way, shape, or form?
     
    Socrates99 likes this.
  7. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2002
    Messages:
    22,305
    Location:
    San Antonio, Texas
    Institutional hierarchy.
     
    Tolina, Cheetah, Traitorfish and 2 others like this.
  8. Patine

    Patine Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,007
    Just like Papa Jozef, Uncle Adolf, and Great Uncle Benito... :p
     
  9. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The trees are actually quite lovely.

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    16,612
    And rule of law. And the Shriners, the Lions, etc. Though they got liberals in them too. Lots of accreditation and professionals, though that gets confused with party when economic circles get muddy.
     
  10. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    45,355
    Location:
    US of A
    Conservatism stands for Wall St.
     
    Estebonrober likes this.
  11. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Messages:
    19,101
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/
     
    Tolina, Fish Man, bernie14 and 2 others like this.
  12. Patine

    Patine Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,007
  13. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Yea this is my point, with their possible policy situations for those things being fundamentally opposed it is not a tenable situation. Liberals are a hot mess of things too, but I'm not familiar off the top of my head things that are in opposition to this degree.

    Lots of infighting on the right these days especially around the social conservative movement who still sound crazy to me, but they are powerful on the right. Their long persecution complex finally seems to be getting mobilized into a semblance of action points. I guess first of these seem to be to stop talking nice. I'd expect a lot more push back against lgbt topics.

    https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2019/05/against-david-french-ism

    Here French and others fall back on religious liberty. French has done yeoman’s work in defense of Christians and other people of faith persecuted in America. But in the long term, religious-liberty absolutism will put Christians and other traditional believers in a bind. If the moral law is merely a matter of ancient, if sincere, conviction, then of course it must give way to the demands for autonomy of people in the here and now.

    Archbishop Charles Chaput made this point in his 2017 book, Strangers in a Strange Land. If traditional moral precepts are “purely religious beliefs,” he wrote, then “they can’t be rationally defended. And because they’re rationally indefensible, they should be treated as a form of prejudice. Thus two thousand years of moral truth and religious principle become, by sleight of hand, a species of bias.”

    Again and again, French insists on the sincerity of the believers whose causes he takes up, as if asserting sincerity of belief can move the heart of an enemy who finds you and your beliefs repulsive: “The biblical sexual ethic is based on a sincere conviction. . . .” “Evidence of devout faith is frequently evidence of a sincere commitment to fairness, compassion, and the faithful discharge of one’s constitutional duties. . . .”

    But they won’t listen. Tub-thump long enough about your sincere but irrational (in the eyes of the reigning ideology) views, and soon opposition to abortion, same-sex marriage, polyamory, kids in drag, and much else of the same kind will come to resemble the wrongheaded and indeed irrational opposition to vaccination mounted by ultra-Orthodox Jews in New York. Sorry, Pastor French, but your superstition will have to give way to public health and the smooth functioning of the autonomy-maximizing society.
     
  14. Patine

    Patine Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    4,007
    But these aren't Christians here. At all. They don't follow the Ministry of Christ or of the Apostles remotely. In fact, a lot of what they believe and promote is completely antithetical to Christ's teachings. And calling them Christian, especially in criticism or chastening, only helps legitimize the Great Apostacy and the Usurper Cult as being believed to be what they definitely are not.
     
  15. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,121
    Gender:
    Male
  16. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,121
    Gender:
    Male
    I understand the point you are trying to make, but this is how they define themselves. I agree they need to reread the New part of the Bible and ignore the Old part more. I'm not sure how to take this position back from them.
     
  17. Old Hippy

    Old Hippy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,407
    do you mean how they pay attention to what is going on?... :mischief:
     
  18. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2017
    Messages:
    2,121
    Gender:
    Male
    Can I ask a personal question here hippy? Why the snark in this comment? I wasn't denigrating you or J, heck its the one common thing the majority of people on this forum have in common, a disdain for Wall St and its financiers. I think I can say almost everyone posting here is "paying attention". You and I just think the other lives in a fantasy world.
     
  19. Old Hippy

    Old Hippy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2011
    Messages:
    3,407
    the mischief?... ''You and I just think the other lives in a fantasy world'' why the snark in your comment?... :love:
     
  20. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Entangled Retired Moderator Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2001
    Messages:
    35,118
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    Conservatives are a coalition of folks that believe in these things:
    • Cut taxes for the rich
    • Raise military spending
    • Cut social spending
    • Evangelical Christian views should stand above all others
    • Old, white men should lead the country to the exclusion of all others
    • Enemies and wars are good things
    • Change should be avoided or suppressed
    • The role of non white people in government should be minimized
    • Women cannot make decisions for themselves
    • More guns will make this a better country
    • Libruls are the enemy
    And since 2016 they have added these:
    • Lying by a president is an OK thing
    • Ideology is more important than everything else including law and the constitution
     
    cardgame and Cloud_Strife like this.

Share This Page