What Effects Will Europe's Closeness to China Have on the World?

[SeleucusNicator]

Brussels-Beijing Bloc

I think there's a point where you can have too much alliteration, and I think that's on the excessive size.

I think "Bloc" works much, much better when it is modified by just one word, like "Soviet Bloc". After all, a Bloc is united, and as such should have just a single adjective.

 

[ligertiger]

Why would europe being economically close with china be a problem? I think most of those paranoid about china are simply scared of communism, left from cold war propaganda. As long as china does not plan on invading the rest of the civilised world, we have no problem.

Wait a minute right there mister, you're using logic in politics! , that's not allowed in the real world!

 

[bathsheba666]

The EU will eventually become a unified state. I think that perfidious Albion (is that better?) is the state least likely to go along with that.

Mmm, probably....but at the same time we couldn't help noticing that 2000 years of English diplomacy would have finally failed.

It will be very interesting to see how we define ourselves after that point, and whether we can find anything positive.

 

[bathsheba666]

I think there's a point where you can have too much alliteration, and I think that's on the excessive size.

I think "Bloc" works much, much better when it is modified by just one word, like "Soviet Bloc". After all, a Bloc is united, and as such should have just a single adjective.

Mmmm, interesting style point, but the single adjective 'Soviet' both adequately described the bloc and also defined the nations within it.

What's your suggestion for a single adjective that suggests both Europe and China?
(No hyphens, please, that's cheating)

 

[stormbind]

Mmmm, interesting style point, but the single adjective 'Soviet' both adequately described the bloc and also defined the nations within it.

What's your suggestion for a single adjective that suggests both Europe and China?
(No hyphens, please, that's cheating)

Economic Bloc

 

[stormbind]

China will conquer Europe, one bra at a time. I figure the Chinese must be on a major buying spree in Eastern Europe. I heard on the BBC that theyve got a big foothold in Italy, in the shoe market. If the Chinese goods are made in the EU, they face less restrictions, is that right?

Misleading

The reason Chinese products are performing well, is because their (cheap) staff numbers are much higher. This means they can analyse each individual product for defects, resulting in higher quality exports. EU & US superior technology can match production numbers, but nobody is employed to check the quality, so deliveries are inferior (and still more expensive).

For example, Chinese sock makers stretch each individual sock over a device to check for missing stitches. Such levels of quality control do not exist in the west.

 

[Dann]

China is no longer Communist, and that makes it absolutely terrifying.

When your opponent is a Communist, you can at least bank on his backwards economic system slowing him down and making him far less formidable. The combination of massive population, massive foreign investment, and rapid liberalization makes China an extremely potent force. I'd give just about anything to have China revert to classical Maoism.

Economic power is problematic because it can be converted into military power. And China is building up its naval and nuclear forces at an alarming rate.

 

[nerovats]

Let the Chinese come, I prefer Chinese food over McDonald any day.

The Chinese will become the biggest power fast. They use best of both worlds, are gaining economic strengt fast but also use the power of communism by focussing that strength on specific goal. Like building a dam and evacuating 1.5 million people out of the valley. Won´t see that in the west.

 

[stormbind]

The UK is fairly close to China. The UK has welcomed global trade for centuries: many businesses and families exist in both nations.

The EU is not particularly close to China. There are political misgivings over China's human rights record, and the EU is very protective of industry.

Recent disputes between the EU and China were caused by France (and other members of the EU) being very protective of their industries. The UK is not protective of it's industry, and it was UK involvement which resolved recent problems.

So is there an EU-China bloc? Is Marla cursing PM Blair for his negotiations?

 

[Marla_Singer]

China is a lot more dependent on its relationship with the US than on its relationship with the EU. After all, Chinese people are the biggest producers in the world and Americans are the biggest customers in the world.

Well, it's clear that Tony Blair recently or Jacques Chirac when he illuminated the Eiffel Tower in red in honour of China do want to seduce China. However let's be honnest... Chinese people are rational and they couldn't care less. China simply wants to make play the competition between the US and the EU in its own advantage. That's all.

And there's not a China-EU "axis" than a China-US "alliance". That's only about yankee xenophobic paranoia. (Xenophobic as fear of the foreigners, nothing racist is intended).

 

[frekk]

China is no longer Communist, and that makes it absolutely terrifying.

When your opponent is a Communist, you can at least bank on his backwards economic system slowing him down and making him far less formidable. The combination of massive population, massive foreign investment, and rapid liberalization makes China an extremely potent force. I'd give just about anything to have China revert to classical Maoism.

Economic power is problematic because it can be converted into military power. And China is building up its naval and nuclear forces at an alarming rate.

I disagree. I think it's a really great development for the world. Western power should be built on trade and mutually beneficial relations, not on keeping people down (or hoping they keep themselves down) so we can dominate them. It's just as good to have bountiful trade with large, wealthy markets. I'd rather have more equals and peers at the international level, and fewer desperate, angry populations.

As for their military buildup, it doesn't bother me in the least. It's not like they are building any kind of long-distance global projection capabilities. No aircraft carriers, no ballistic missile sub fleet, none of that. There's some naval buildup but it is just attack subs and craft suited for littoral operations. All indications are China's aims are simply regional force, which, if China is liberalizing, is a great thing. Admittedly their forces are developing countermeasures to our own, but that's neither surprising nor troubling, providing we don't decide to go over there and start messing with them (and I don't see any reason why we should, even if they were poorly armed). We should aim to normalize relations and then we have a powerful partner in Asia who can really contribute to stabilization in any of those countries that start to become failed states (as is certainly possible in places like Indonesia). The West simply isn't able to provide security to every troubled crisis zone in the whole world anymore, our plate if full and overflowing with problems, if we could have China take over regional security efforts for Asia and the East Indies, that would be great. Or, we could sit around fearmongering and being suspicious over a country that shows no intention of any kind of unprovoked attack on our soil, is liberalizing and engaging in trade and improving the lot of its people at a rapid pace. Why are some people so eager to start a new Cold War with a country like that? It just doesn't make sense. China's rising, its going to become a more powerful country, but that's great, a billion people will be living better lives, absorbed in working and enjoying their new wealth, which is a recipe for peace, not war.

 

[DAv2003]

Interesting views so far. But personally I welcome the closening relationships, a tripod of power between Europe, China and America will prove benificary to everyone.

 

[Stefan Haertel]

SN, no offense, but I've got the feeling that you're being very paranoid there. The main goal of Europe is not to challenge the US. It is to unify itself and fave a golden future, being friendly to as many nations in the world as possible. Yes, China is among them, but so is the US.

 

[Bigfoot]

There are elements of competition and symbiosis between all of the major players (US, China, EU, and let's not forget India, another emerging super-power). That makes for a complex and dynamic world. I too see more benefits than disadvantages from a prosperous China, especially if it trends towards more freedom and democracy. I suppose that military conflict is possible, but it is hardly inevitable.

 

[Yoda Power]

The EU will eventually become a unified state. I think that perfidious Albion (is that better?) is the state least likely to go along with that.

The EU will not become a unified state within a long time. Some politicians might be talking about it, but the people is mostly against it.

 

[Stefan Haertel]

The EU will not become a unified state within a long time. Some politicians might be talking about it, but the people is mostly against it.

Mostly. There are Europatriots like me who advocate European unification.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

The EU will not become a unified state within a long time. Some politicians might be talking about it, but the people is mostly against it.

There are strong structural forces driving European unification. And I think that "Europatriotism" is only growing.

In terms of national identity and unification, Europe right now is like Germany or Italy in 1848. The idea for unification and the new national identity is certainly there, but not strong enough to actually bring about a new European state. It's on its way, though.

 

[SeleucusNicator]

As for their military buildup, it doesn't bother me in the least. It's not like they are building any kind of long-distance global projection capabilities. No aircraft carriers, no ballistic missile sub fleet, none of that. There's some naval buildup but it is just attack subs and craft suited for littoral operations. All indications are China's aims are simply regional force, which, if China is liberalizing, is a great thing. Admittedly their forces are developing countermeasures to our own, but that's neither surprising nor troubling, providing we don't decide to go over there and start messing with them (and I don't see any reason why we should, even if they were poorly armed). We should aim to normalize relations and then we have a powerful partner in Asia who can really contribute to stabilization in any of those countries that start to become failed states (as is certainly possible in places like Indonesia). The West simply isn't able to provide security to every troubled crisis zone in the whole world anymore, our plate if full and overflowing with problems, if we could have China take over regional security efforts for Asia and the East Indies, that would be great. Or, we could sit around fearmongering and being suspicious over a country that shows no intention of any kind of unprovoked attack on our soil, is liberalizing and engaging in trade and improving the lot of its people at a rapid pace. Why are some people so eager to start a new Cold War with a country like that? It just doesn't make sense. China's rising, its going to become a more powerful country, but that's great, a billion people will be living better lives, absorbed in working and enjoying their new wealth, which is a recipe for peace, not war.

You're advocating Chinese regional hegemony? Yuck.

The United States is history's first regional hegemon; because we don't have to worry about threats in our home region (when's the last time we had to worry about Canada or Mexico attacking?) we can spend virtually all of our defense budget on projecting power to distant lands; we can spend it on global power rather than regional power. That's a huge advantage.

Now, however, there are two nations threatening regional hegemony of their own: the EU, due to Russia's collapse, and China, due to its economy and population being far larger than any neighbor. The EU and China will soon be able to likewise spend all of their defense budget on global power; and that will make them peer competitors to the United States. For the first time in the history of mankind, the US will lose its single greatest advantage.