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[BERT] What factors affect AI attitude, peace offerings?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by vorlon_mi, Feb 18, 2020.

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  1. vorlon_mi

    vorlon_mi Just One More Turn

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    Playing last night, I had an experience with diplomacy that was different from what I experienced in Civ 5, Civ 4, or Civ3.

    I'm playing as Kavitha, and my neighbor was PAC. We were best buddies for 150 turns; 4 diplo agreements, trade routes, raised our relationship to "Allied" for much of that time. After turn 150 or so, the other smaller AIs start declaring war on each other. I can't see much reason why, unless I'm missing something. When PAC declared on someone else, I DoW'ed also, thru the alliance. I fought alongside her, killing mutual enemies.

    To focus on my own development, I moved the relationship down one notch to "Cooperating." She grumbled, but kept on doing her thing. PAC only had 2 cities, but she was feisty and declared on other AIs. Suddenly, 10-15 turns after I changed the relationship status, she moves from "Cooperating" to "War". WTF?

    I bring back my navy from the other side of the planet, chewing up the PAC navy along the way. War score over 300 in my favor -- won't talk peace. I overwhelm and puppet her second city. War score just over 1000 in my favor -- won't talk peace. I literally checked for a way to stop the war *every turn* while my forces lined up on her border. Nothing. I bombard her capital with navy and air power, and take it.

    Questions: What would cause an AI to (essentially) commit suicide by declaring on me? Breaking all the mutually beneficial agreements that we have in place?

    Is it unusual to go from "Cooperating" right to "War"? In Civ 5, they usually denounce me before declaring, and the BERT analog would seem to be lowering our relationship to "Sanctioned"

    Do the AIs usually start declaring on each other in the late game? They've taken each other's cities and puppeted them. Are those old grievances building up?
     
  2. legalizefreedom

    legalizefreedom Inefficiency Expert

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    The first moral of the story is be wary of the Ally status. Use it only when you are prepared to go to war with any number of civs.

    The problem came when you lowered the relationship. If you wish to remain friendly, you should never do this. Granted most of the time it won't turn out like it did here, but it could. Make the AI downgrade relationships.

    If you were roleplaying, you could just consider her to have been using you all along until the time was right to betray. Backstabbing looks a little different in BERT, but it is still there for sure.

    Relationships seem to be a bit different every game. Sometimes it's peaceful until someone builds a victory wonder, sometimes it's world war the whole game.
     
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  3. vorlon_mi

    vorlon_mi Just One More Turn

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    Re: backstabbing -- in other games in the franchise, it's possible to bribe an AI into declaring on another AI. Is that possible in BERT? Could someone else have convinced her to declare on me?
     
  4. vorlon_mi

    vorlon_mi Just One More Turn

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    What about openness to peace deals? When an AI is losing the war as badly as PAC was, would they not try to pay me off to stop the bleeding?
     
  5. legalizefreedom

    legalizefreedom Inefficiency Expert

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    There is no bribing (or direct trading) in BERT. That is the beauty of its system. It is jarring coming from the rest of the franchise, but after you get used to it, it makes your actions feel more meaningful. You can't just act against someone and make it right with gold or luxuries (at least not directly). You do have options to repair relationships, but it is a more gradual process. You have to act responsibly. And there is a flow to relationships. Because you saw her starting wars with everyone, you know she is a warmonger, no matter how strong or weak. It should not be a surprise when she turns on you.

    I think there was some tweaking yet to be done dealing with the AIs refusal to make peace, but be that as it may. I do think they wait too long to consider peace, but that may be intended to make your actions more meaningful. If you roleplay, you can view it as a proud country not bowing to an enemy. I have come to learn as long as you are engaging them in combat, you likely will never get an option for peace. If you want peace, you should pull back, not attack them and avoid their attacks. Even then it depends on the leader and takes too many turns to become available.
     
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