What future do you want for Europe?

What future do you want for Europe?

  • Eventual United States Of Europe

    Votes: 31 47.7%
  • A Coalition Of Independent Countries

    Votes: 20 30.8%
  • Regression To Old-Style Europe

    Votes: 8 12.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 3 4.6%
  • Don't Know or Don't Care

    Votes: 3 4.6%

  • Total voters
    65

MrPresident

Anglo-Saxon Liberal
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I would like to say that this polls is open to everyone regardless of if they are in Europe or not. So with the launch of the Euro and the intergration of existing member states and the adding in the future of further countries, what future do you think Europe should have?
 

Simon Darkshade

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A collection of independent sovereign states that has some limited degree of international cooperation in the military and economic arenas.
No full scale union at the cost of individual nationalism and independence.
 

Ohwell

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I would like something like "brotherhood", In which the nations are seperate, and have their own say in what they do, but they would have very strong economic ties as well as a military alliance. Much like the current European Union.

This is so, because a unified Europe would be agonizingly hard to do.
 

Flatlander Fox

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"Yeah, what he said!"


A united states of Europe won't work because deep down, Germans, Frenchmen, and Englishmen don't like each other a whole bunch.:)
 

Simon Darkshade

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Yes, I can hear the immortal words of that great Englishman Edmund Blackadder right now: "We hate the French! We fight wars against them! Did all those men die in vain on the field of Agincourt? Was the man who burnt Joan of Arc simply wasting good matches?"

And also there is the fact that a full European United State is part of the dangerous insidious commie plot to violate our precious bodily essence.:p
 

MrPresident

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A united states of Europe won't work because deep down, Germans, Frenchmen, and Englishmen don't like each other a whole bunch.

Funny how this was the same argument used by opponents to a united States Of America.
 

Knowltok

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Originally posted by MrPresident


Funny how this was the same argument used by opponents to a united States Of America.

Must have been asleep that day in history class. Must have been the same day they taught about the endless wars that Massachusetts and Virginia fought, or the shifting alliances between Delaware, New Jersey, and the Southern League too. :rolleyes:
 

dannyevilcat

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I'd like to see a united Europe with the economic and military strength to provide a counterbalance to America.
It's not that I dislike the States, it's just that I think it needs something on the other side of the scale to prevent it from running amok with it's power. Europe today shares many of the same values anyway, and can cooperate relatively well. If the U.S. is the world's policeman, it should also have a partner-- not a bunch of assistants.
 

MrPresident

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Must have been asleep that day in history class. Must have been the same day they taught about the endless wars that Massachusetts and Virginia fought, or the shifting alliances between Delaware, New Jersey, and the Southern League too.

Actually there were fights between states, usually concerning border disputes and fishing rights. Thats why West Virginia goes up sharply at the north-east corner. Remeber during the independence war soldiers from different states rarely stayed in the army if they left their home state. In fact many New England states were in active trade with the British.
 

Ptolemy

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The EU should take care of Foreign policy (Not military) and a inner market, the euro, cooperation between the police and courts in the EU-membercountries, the environment stuff.

The EU should have a sort of mandate from the governments in the foreign policy. The governments shall come to an aggreement of what they want in a specific case. These mandates should 80% of the countries behind it and 80% of the Eu-population. (Let's say Germany has 80 millions inhabitants of 360 millions inhabitants in the Eu, then they would 25% of the Eu-population.

The inner market, the euro and the environment should be things where the EU should have absolute power. The laws should be confirmed by the EU-Parliament every time.

The police cooperation and that stuff shall only be cooperation that means NO RULES FROM THE EU!

If the EU gets its own military I am afraid that the EU will start on an just as insane foreign policy as the USA. The member states should a tiny little military but if declared war on one of the EU-countries, the others shall help that land with military support, but NO offenssive missions! The EU-members can particapate in the UN-troops if they want an international military dimension.

And all of the EU should be pushed in a socialistic way (Yes, I am a socialist and I am proud of it! [dance])
 

Simon Darkshade

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Originally posted by Ptolemy
And all of the EU should be pushed in a socialistic way (Yes, I am a socialist and I am proud of it! [dance])

I'm calling the CIA!;)
 

Hamlet

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Originally posted by Ptolemy
And all of the EU should be pushed in a socialistic way (Yes, I am a socialist and I am proud of it! [dance])

United European Socialist Republics here we come!!! :D :D :D :p


Seriously, though, an eventual, and gradual USE.

However, reform of existing structures should be the priority at the moment, after the current enlargement process is complete. I.E, greater democracy and openess, and an end to the ridiculous corruption levels that we are currently plagued by.

Some sort of education campaign would not go amiss, either. Half of euroscepticsm is based around non-truths and myths, not to mention downright ignorance. :(
 

Knowltok

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Originally posted by MrPresident


Actually there were fights between states, usually concerning border disputes and fishing rights. Thats why West Virginia goes up sharply at the north-east corner. Remeber during the independence war soldiers from different states rarely stayed in the army if they left their home state. In fact many New England states were in active trade with the British.

I don't claim that all was peace and harmony between the colonies, but a comparison between their relatations and the historical relations of Europe seems laughable to me. Personally I think the Europeans can get past their history, but the 100 years war, 30 years war, Napoleonic conflicts, etc. are are bit more to get past than a squable over fishing rights, or The Whisky Rebellion.
 

Kennelly

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Although I?m proud of my country,I voted for USE.But this doesn?t hit it precisely,because the EU is sth. new.Never before in history have sovereign nations with a millennium tradition voluntarily decided to unite under a common roof.They belong to the same western civilization (this is why I?m against Turkey in the EU) ,but have very different tradition (there isn?t SO much connecting a Greek with a Swede) and a dozen languages (by now),so it?s really sth. unseen.

Europe will never sustain the Nations,but it can be kind of superior identity-within 15 different identities,but to the outer world one European identity and voice.Coalition of Independent nations would be like NATO or UN,but this is to weak.

To compete with the US or China on the same level there has to be a unified Europe with common foreign policy and military.There are still many things to be overtaken by the EU to establish a real common market,but there are others as well like regional support which gould be given back to Nations.

But for a really democratic Europe the role of EU-Parliament has to become much more important and I also pledge for direct election of EU-Commision president and a European constitution.
 

Flatlander Fox

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The wars between Deleware and Rhode Island didn't kill 25 million people in the last century;)!

Seriously though, scratch the surface and there is alot of nationalism in Europe.

And that is a good thing.
 

Greadius

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USE? Great acronym...

True, the blood runs a lot deeper in European soil than American soil (unless you can't that whole indian/civil war thing... sheesh, we really don't get along that well).

I think the biggest barrier to European unification is language. Granted, most of them are bilingual at least, but the primary language is different, and that can be a major seperator.

Also, there are much stronger Protestant/Catholic strands in Europe than there were in America. We were designed to be a secular state, where many religious Europeans, especially the Christian parties, would see that as a huge threat.

Finally, there begs the question "What is Europe"? What nations would partake? The economies of Western Europe and Eastern Europe are hardly compatible (this will be a mess for the EU).

But... I think European unification will happen eventually. Not because it was forced on anyone, but because after so many years of cultural exchanges and peace the necessity to seperate slowly disappears.

It'll be a while though... considering how far Europe has come since WW2, I might see it near the end of my lifetime.
 

Hamlet

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Originally posted by Greadius
Also, there are much stronger Protestant/Catholic strands in Europe than there were in America. We were designed to be a secular state, where many religious Europeans, especially the Christian parties, would see that as a huge threat.

I'm not terribly sure if I can speak for the rest of Europe, but the amount of religious nutters (If you'll pardon the term) in my country is incredibly slight.

For instance, abortion is still an issue in The US, whereas here it was almost completely settled decades ago.

If I may be so bold, I would suggest that religion was more of an issue in US politics than that of Europe, even though The US is theoretically totally secular.
 

CornMaster

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I'm for a total European Union.

The world keeps dividing into smaller and smaller countries....and this is the wrong way to go, we should be one. Although a total EU would not be 1.....we still would have A LOT of other countries and groups, but it's a step in the right direction. A common currency was a HUGE step....just hope it all holds together.
 

CornMaster

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Originally posted by dannyevilcat
.....It's not that I dislike the States,.....

Why does everyone thread so softly?!?

Saying you dislike a country and trolling, flaming, etc....are two different things.

I dislike the US. And that's why I'm moving back to Canada this summer.

You can say you dislike a country and not have the CIA banging at your door. ;)
*bang*..WTF!! no...I was joking ....no....ahhhhh....not the night sticks.....ouch..ouch....

;) j/k
 

Kennelly

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Originally posted by Greadius

Also, there are much stronger Protestant/Catholic strands in Europe than there were in America. We were designed to be a secular state, where many religious Europeans, especially the Christian parties, would see that as a huge threat.

IIRC there has only been 1 catholic president in the U.S.,right?Here in Germany
1)nobody cares what religion the chancellor has 2)there have been protestants and catholics on the throne
There are even some atheists as high politicians.I´d like to see the American reaction if there were an atheistic president 4 times divorced as our chancellor is.

I think most European states (except the Vatican of course) are secular,means there is no state religion.Even the swedish abolished it a few years ago.

Of course there is Northern Ireland,but outside religion doesn´t play a big role in European politics.
 
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