What Happened To Obama?

[Laurencius]

Not to the 110,000 victims who were deprived of their freedom and liberty for four years. If you don't think it is such a big deal, try not leaving your house for the next four years of your life.

And, to be specific, the people interned were Americans, they just happened to be of Japanese ancestry. I think it's interesting to note that no effort was made to intern the millions of Americans of German or Italian ancestry.

 

[Cutlass]

Not to the 110,000 victims who were deprived of their freedom and liberty for four years. If you don't think it is such a big deal, try not leaving your house for the next four years of your life.

I didn't say it wasn't a big deal. But it is only being played up to disgrace everything else FDR did. And while he was wrong about this, it isn't by far one of the worst things the government has ever done.

 

[Azale]

I didn't say it wasn't a big deal. But it is only being played up to disgrace everything else FDR did. And while he was wrong about this, it isn't by far one of the worst things the government has ever done.

Umm...yes it is? I mean, I'm not entirely sure how much can be laid at the feet of FDR, since this was really DeWitt's baby and the regional military commanders in the country during WW2 seemed to be allowed alot of leeway in how they handled the Japanese issue (as seen with Emmons in Hawaii who pretty much ignored EO9066).

Of course, FDR also entirely ignored subsequent reports that pretty much called the threat from Issei or Nissei subversion nonexistent. Whether he had bigger fish to fry is irrelevant, those were American citizens and they were placed in hastily constructed concentration camps, mostly in extremely arid conditions.

The most lasting effect of the camps was to destroy competition for white farmers. Japanese fruit and vegetables (among other things I think, my memory is a bit hazy) were even making inroads in the rest of the country, and this scared white agriculture. Are the two related? I dunno, but they definitely were not interned for reasons of national security.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

I'll answer this with an old proverb: talk is cheap. I'd prefer Obama take action than give speeches. He knows how to give those well enough. This is just a fantasy to believe that mere speech is enough to make things happen. Obama may be a weak leader but not on oratory.

 

[Cutlass]

Umm...yes it is? I mean, I'm not entirely sure how much can be laid at the feet of FDR, since this was really DeWitt's baby and the regional military commanders in the country during WW2 seemed to be allowed alot of leeway in how they handled the Japanese issue (as seen with Emmons in Hawaii who pretty much ignored EO9066).

Of course, FDR also entirely ignored subsequent reports that pretty much called the threat from Issei or Nissei subversion nonexistent. Whether he had bigger fish to fry is irrelevant, those were American citizens and they were placed in hastily constructed concentration camps, mostly in extremely arid conditions.

The most lasting effect of the camps was to destroy competition for white farmers. Japanese fruit and vegetables (among other things I think, my memory is a bit hazy) were even making inroads in the rest of the country, and this scared white agriculture. Are the two related? I dunno, but they definitely were not interned for reasons of national security.

I never claimed it did not harm the people involved. But to say it is one of the worst things ever ignores the other bad things. Slavery killed and imprisoned vastly more people for centuries longer. Jim Crow laws did many times as much harm to far more people for 100 years. Effects most blacks still have not overcome. The destruction and forcible removal of the Indians. The war on drugs. Any number of imperial adventures. The firebombing of cities.


Yes, internment was a disgraceful episode in the nation's history. But to claim it as the worst we have done is political posturing and hyperbole.

 

[LucyDuke]

Who did nothing, but hype healthcare instead of fixing the economy?

Uhhh... not reading the rest of the thread, what does "fix the economy" mean? Was there a broken valve somewhere?

 

[Azale]

Yes, internment was a disgraceful episode in the nation's history. But to claim it as the worst we have done is political posturing and hyperbole.

Hey don't move le goal posts, I'm just challenging the claim that it's not ONE of the worst things that's been done. Because, you know, it is.

 

[Cutlass]

Hey don't move le goal posts, I'm just challenging the claim that it's not ONE of the worst things that's been done. Because, you know, it is.

Is it in the top 10? Top 20? doesn't seem that way to me.

 

[Azale]

Is it in the top 10? Top 20? doesn't seem that way to me.

Ok dude, whatever helps you apologize for FDR better. I hope no one is having a similar discussion 60 years from now, rationalizing Obama's illegal immigrant deathcamps or whatever as "not so bad" because it "wasn't even in the top 20."

 

[Cutlass]

I have not, at all, apologized for FDR. I'm just pointing out that the main reason this incident is being thrown around is to discredit and demonize FDR on ALL issues, and not just on that one. And the reason it is so imperative to demonize FDR is to use it as an attack on all of modern liberalism.

 

[Theige]

Ok dude, whatever helps you apologize for FDR better. I hope no one is having a similar discussion 60 years from now, rationalizing Obama's illegal immigrant deathcamps or whatever as "not so bad" because it "wasn't even in the top 20."

It wasn't that bad because it wasn't that bad. Especially when compared to the actions of other countries.

The worst effect was the loss of property, for which Japanese-Americans were compensated for.

 

[Ajidica]

The worst effect was the loss of property, for which Japanese-Americans were compensated for.

Not really, the IRS had destroyed most tax records.

 

[Flying Pig]

And, to be specific, the people interned were Americans, they just happened to be of Japanese ancestry. I think it's interesting to note that no effort was made to intern the millions of Americans of German or Italian ancestry.

Germany was never going to invade the USA. The British did intern anyone of German, Austrian or Italian citizenship, which caused some irritation among Jews who were in Britain to get away from the Germans, not to mention internment... it caused even more problems when some of said Jews were allowed into the Army, to be confronted with the stock sentry challenge of 'word' 'related word' 'welcome' - designed to weed out people with a German accent, who would pronounce it 'Jack' 'Spratt' 'Velcome', and therefore obviously must be German...

 

[Cutlass]

To be fair, Japan never was going to invade the US either. But people didn't realize it at the time because of fear.

 

[BasketCase]

You were right for the first paragraph, wrong on the second. I believe that people went out and voted not just against Bush in 2008, but also FOR that exact narrative that you talked about.

And 90% of that narrative was "we hate Bush". 2008 wasn't only "the voters voting not for Obama but against Bush"--Obama ran his own campaign the same way. His campaign was short on specifics, and when he did give specifics, they were standard Democratic boilerplate. Nothing new at all in the boilerplate part. The "new" in Obama's narrative was "we hate Bush", pure and simple.

 

[Millman]

Then why don't 'you' do something about it. I know I'm not the perfect person, but nobody here is better than they are. I make recommendations on how to solve problems yet you close my topics.

The reason why any human has a government is to reduce corruption. Your leaders are not perfect themselves. So the more you commit crime the more the reason we need detectives and parliments or whatever your government is.

On the other hand if your leaders do not know how to manage anything then you need to physically do something about it. Case in point.

Congressperson: I don't want to work and want to shut down the chambers.

You: Then why are you there?

Decide quickly before something else doesn't happen.

 

[Ayatollah So]

Obama may be a weak leader but not on including oratory.

Fixed that for ya.

Eloquence is not enough. Strategy and some aggressiveness are required. Also it helps to know your audience - and to target as an audience not just the VIPs but more importantly the unwashed masses.

 

[carmen510]

The worst effect was the loss of property, for which Japanese-Americans were compensated for.

They were barely compensated for their property losses, and weren't compensated at all for confiscated consumer goods like cars and home appliances.

 

[Azale]

It wasn't that bad because it wasn't that bad. Especially when compared to the actions of other countries.

The worst effect was the loss of property, for which Japanese-Americans were compensated for.

So now we're comparing ourselves to the actions of other countries when it comes to justice for our own citizens and accountability for OUR actions? No, that's now how it works. USA #1, so let's act like it.

And loss of property was massive and wholesale, it affected the entire way Japanese Americans made a living. It was expropriated and dispersed to their competitors. They were never even remotely adequately reimbursed.

To be fair, Japan never was going to invade the US either. But people didn't realize it at the time because of fear.

So FDR let public fear and anxiety lead him to a conclusion that unloaded a massive dump, if you will, all over everything this country ostensibly stands for and all of that nice stuff. The people "in the know" knew very well what the actual threat from that fraction of the population that was Nisei or Issei was, and FDR had access to that information. He ignored it, not in favor of doing nothing but in favor of mass relocation and internment. Nothing to fear but fear itself my ass.



Hopefully Obama never turns out to be another FDR.

 

[GenMarshall]

Obama just let the Republicans walk over him and failing to generate jobs in the US.