Gogf
Indescribable
It's the old argument turned on its head. How can the superdelegates "give it to Obama" when Clinton has more votes?
What happens if Obama wins by delegates and Clinton has more popular votes?
- Thread starter Gogf
- Start date
'cuz they can.
If the Democratic party really wanted the primaries to be completely democratic, and represent the people, they wouldn't have superdelegates to begin with. Same tough luck as the Electoral College, 'cept this is a private organization instead of a government.
If the Democratic party really wanted the primaries to be completely democratic, and represent the people, they wouldn't have superdelegates to begin with. Same tough luck as the Electoral College, 'cept this is a private organization instead of a government.
Trajan12
Deity
Nothing.
If Clinton wanted to win she should have won more delegates. But as the rules stand, he who wins the delegates wins.
The Republican Party and Electoral College are just as or more undemocratic as the Dem Primary process.
If Clinton wanted to win she should have won more delegates. But as the rules stand, he who wins the delegates wins.
The Republican Party and Electoral College are just as or more undemocratic as the Dem Primary process.
Because they can't do anything else. If they say "Yeah, Obama is clearly ahead according to our rules, but we're going to just give the nomination to Hillary instead" then there will be an incredible backlash against the Democratic party leadership, especially among blacks. Obama has won, and they can't take that away from him in any way without it looking like they're stealing it from him. (Assuming something insane doesn't happen, like Obama murdering someone. In that case, they would, but other than that, Hillary doesn't have a chance)
Of course, there's going to be some hard feelings either way, especially if Clinton has the popular vote majority. But they've got to pick the lesser of two evils, and that means nominate the person whose nomination will cause the least harm - here, Obama.
Rules are rules, and it's a private association. If Obama wins the delegates, and he will, then the Dems have to give him the nomination. Of course, if Hillary does win the popular vote, I suppose many people will regrett supporting Obama.
GenMarshall
Sin'dorei ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
It would be like the 2000 and 2004 elections all over again 
. But this time its not the Republicans who did it, it's the Democrats who did it in the primaries by punishing Michigan and Florida.
. But this time its not the Republicans who did it, it's the Democrats who did it in the primaries by punishing Michigan and Florida.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Obama wins.
Game.Set.Match
Game.Set.Match
mitsho
Deity
Then Obama is the democratic nominee. The rules of the process is that whoever wins more delegates (super or not) will be the democratic nominee. You can't (or shouldn't) change the game rules while playing. Popular vote doesn't count for it.
The Republican process isn't anymore democratic as well, giving whole states to the best candidate and not counting several region (outside-Us-Republicans), right? The Presidential election as well is not really democratic, as the popular vote there doesn't count anything either, it is the states and thus the electoral college which counts. Additionally, the US does exclude a large amount of the population, for example the criminals.
The Republican process isn't anymore democratic as well, giving whole states to the best candidate and not counting several region (outside-Us-Republicans), right? The Presidential election as well is not really democratic, as the popular vote there doesn't count anything either, it is the states and thus the electoral college which counts. Additionally, the US does exclude a large amount of the population, for example the criminals.
It's damn near impossible for such a scenario to happen unless you refuse to give Obama a single vote in Michigan.
Hillary would need to net 200,000 votes in PR and that just isn't going to happen. She's looking to win 55/45 - 60/40ish there; in comparison she won PA 55/45 and netted 200,000. PR is a third the population of PA, so a 55/45 win nets her less than 75,000.
As to Michigan, what the Democratic party must decide is the intent of the voters of Michigan. Since all the 'undecided' votes were clearly votes NOT for Hillary, they need to goto Obama.
Hillary would need to net 200,000 votes in PR and that just isn't going to happen. She's looking to win 55/45 - 60/40ish there; in comparison she won PA 55/45 and netted 200,000. PR is a third the population of PA, so a 55/45 win nets her less than 75,000.
As to Michigan, what the Democratic party must decide is the intent of the voters of Michigan. Since all the 'undecided' votes were clearly votes NOT for Hillary, they need to goto Obama.
Trajan12
Deity
I saw one argument that the uncommitted votes and delegates should go to Obama because all candidates who didn't have their names on the ballots have since endorsed Obama.
And that's likely how it'll play out.
ohcrapitsnico
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2006
- Messages
- 2,267
Obama would get the nomination if we go by the election of 2000. Both shams.
EnlightenmentHK
Emperor
- Joined
- May 28, 2007
- Messages
- 1,479
Nothing. The Primary is decided. The popular vote thing is nothing but last ditch desperation. It requires the seating of two primaries, one of which Clinton was the only name on the ballot and the other one Obama didn't even campaign in. And it goes on to ignore several caucuses.
At the moment, the system is set up not only to make the popular vote meaningless, but also to make it impossible to decipher in any sort of fair and accurate manner.
The super delegates know its BS and they're not biting. Hillary's done, she knows it and everyone around her knows it. All she can do right now is try to destroy the possibility of an Obama Presidency by smashing things up before she leaves.
If she does that, The Democratic Party will not forgive her.
At the moment, the system is set up not only to make the popular vote meaningless, but also to make it impossible to decipher in any sort of fair and accurate manner.
The super delegates know its BS and they're not biting. Hillary's done, she knows it and everyone around her knows it. All she can do right now is try to destroy the possibility of an Obama Presidency by smashing things up before she leaves.
If she does that, The Democratic Party will not forgive her.
Stolen Rutters
Deity
By following the rules of the convention! I just looked at the updated numbers. Obama has a nice little pledged delegate majority, even after MI and FL. Supers could break 50-50 and Obama will still win.
About 67 delegates short of the absolute majority for Obama, with 86 up for grabs in the final three contests... about 181 supers left to declare... The remaining undeclared Supers need to break real heavy to Senator Clinton for her to take the nomination.
And if they were going to break that way, they would have by now. I'm leaning towards this happening: between now and Monday, enough supers declare for Obama (ie: they already declared to Obama and he had them release at a stratigic point) that as the last 2 contests finish, Obama clinches on pledged delegates. He would only need 10 - 15 supers declare in that time frame to do this.
It's a nice happy ending for his campaign.
North King
blech
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2004
- Messages
- 18,165
Even if you use the ridiculous argument that she's somehow winning in the popular vote, then it's not actually all that uncommon. People have won the nomination while never winning a majority of the popular vote in primaries quite often. The one that immediately comes to mind is Richard Nixon in 1968, who easily won the nomination despite being considerably behind Ronald Reagan in the popular vote. In a rather eerie parallel, actually, Reagan only won the popular vote because of his lead in California, where he was the only name on the ballot. 
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Then all the democrats and liberals who whined about Bush winning vs Gore become instant hypocrites.
Similar threads
