What happens when a 3-way DP is broken?

[Jet]

If A, B, and C all have DPs with each other and A declares on B (normal declaration, not due to a world congress), how can you tell which side C will be on?

What I saw in one case in 1.180 is that C was on the side of the aggressor A, but I don't know if that's specific to that version or to RFC. I'm not sure what I expected.

 

[say1988]

Don't know, but the most obvious method of dealing with that would be to give it a choice. I myself try to avoid signing DPs, since for their benefits, the risk of being drawn into an unwanted, pointless, costly war is too great. SO I can't say from personal experience.
Else I would assume they get stuck on the side of the defender.

 

[Riker]

they boost stability, you just can't get enough

 

[onedreamer]

If A, B, and C all have DPs with each other and A declares on B (normal declaration, not due to a world congress), how can you tell which side C will be on?

What I saw in one case in 1.180 is that C was on the side of the aggressor A, but I don't know if that's specific to that version or to RFC. I'm not sure what I expected.

It should be C to join B in normal conditions. Maybe it was actually B to declare war due to some peculiar factors.

 

[Rhye]

Depends. Was it you A?

If A is the AI, I coded that in the moment of the declaration, it cancels any defensive pact with civs allied with B. So, C will side with B.
In normal civ, A would cancel the deal with anyone.

 

[Jet]

Thanks for the reply. I was wrong about what happened.

A = Portugal
B = me
C = Spain

I also had a DP with Turkey. What actually happened is
1. Spain declared on Turkey
2. I auto-declared on Spain
3. Portugal auto-declared on me.

I incorrectly thought Portugal started everything because I only got one leader head popup, from Portugal, and I guess I didn't look at all the messages carefully.

 

[Rhye]

it's fine then.

Spain----You---Turkey
  \	  /
   \     /
   Portugal

Spain attacks Turkey and breaks pact with you, allied with Turkey.
As you attack Spain, neutral Portugal sides with the one that's been attacked

 

[onedreamer]

It shouldn't work like this though.
When Spain attacked Turkey all its DP should have dropped immediatly, so Portugal shouldn't have attacked Jet.

 

[Rhye]

the tweak is necessary to achieve stable alliances, and consequently, world wars

 

[kairob]

yeah, I think its much more fun like this. It means if I want to be at war with A I normally have to declare war on C.

 

[Dabur]

the tweak is necessary to achieve stable alliances, and consequently, world wars

Hi ,

unfortunatly those world wars tend to be directed at the human player and or his vassals then a world war between several civs , ....

even with the new patch it can hapen that over 6 civs declare war on you , just cause you have borders or due to religion , ....

can this be a bit changed or not , ..... ????


Have a nice day

 

[Rhye]

the human player is treated like the AI. So, you were just unlucky, or extremely powerful (so that other coalised)

 

[Dabur]

the human player is treated like the AI. So, you were just unlucky, or extremely powerful (so that other coalised)

Hi ,


in one game both happend actually , but the biggest reason was upgrading as japan forty plus samurai into rifleman , all of a sudden 5 civs declared war , .... are they that scared of power ??

or is this just bad luck due to some strange coindidence ??

Have a nice day

 

[Rhye]

you should check the alliances the turn before

 

[onedreamer]

the tweak is necessary to achieve stable alliances, and consequently, world wars

but the way it happens is completely arbitrary. Jet was allied to both Spain and Turkey yet auto-declared on Spain. Portugal was allied to both Spain and Jet yet auto-declared on Jet. Maybe there should be a choice available in order to preserve the diplomatic importance of the game.

 

[Dabur]

you should check the alliances the turn before

Hi ,

okay due to age there are some cobwebs in the brain , BUT , yep no alliences ( !! ) seems the AI not happy when you all of a sudden become the number one military power , regardless of settings of your civ , ....

tryed as germans , french , japs , spain and the us of a so far

Have a nice day



p.s. thanks again for the best mod around

 

[Rhye]

but the way it happens is completely arbitrary. Jet was allied to both Spain and Turkey yet auto-declared on Spain. Portugal was allied to both Spain and Jet yet auto-declared on Jet. Maybe there should be a choice available in order to preserve the diplomatic importance of the game.

this is the basis of the world wars system.
In Civ4, whenever a civ declares a war, all the pacts decay. So it's always you vs the coalition, and never your coalition vs the other coalition.

Limiting the cancelling of pacts to friends only, there can be chain reactions. Portugal attacked Jet because Jet attacked Spain.
The 4 civs block split in 2v2

 

[AnotherPacifist]

This has not been a problem since the more restrictive signing of pacts from the most recent update. (Usually after 1 or 2 at most pacts nobody will sign pacts with you, especially if you have vassals)

Better yet, don't declare war, let them do it after world conferences and you'll maintain your defensive pacts.

 

[onedreamer]

this is the basis of the world wars system.
In Civ4, whenever a civ declares a war, all the pacts decay. So it's always you vs the coalition, and never your coalition vs the other coalition.

Limiting the cancelling of pacts to friends only, there can be chain reactions. Portugal attacked Jet because Jet attacked Spain.
The 4 civs block split in 2v2

Rhye, I'm ok with pacts not decaying, it's a nice feature to cause broader scale wars. What I wrote though is that you should be able to choose which side to join and not attack arbitrarily. You talk of coalitions but in Jet's example there weren't coalitions and Jet autodeclared randomly on one of his allies.

 

[Rhye]

It's not randomly, it followed the war declarations order.
I can't implement any popup anyway, that piece of code is fearful (recursive calls)