What happens when civ I am fighting becomes somebody else's peace vassal?

[Fine_Distinction]

I do not see a way to test it in world builder, but it seems like it can mess up diplo big time.

Let us say I am fighting civ A and it suddenly peace vassals to civ B, with which I have good relations. Do I automatically declare war on civ B? or Civ B DoWs me? Is it enough that civ B have feudalism or both civ A and B have feudalism?

TIA

 

[AcaMetis]

In that example Civ B will DoW you. Mechanically, the act of becoming Civ B's vassal is Civ A's way to bribe Civ B to declare war on you. It's not quite the same as a peace(time) vassal, it's technically a war bribe. So any of the usual ways to prevent a war bribe (begging for a ten turn peace treaty, having good enough relations, etc.) will prevent Civ A from becoming Civ A's vassal while the war with you is still ongoing. Note, BTW, that if Civ B is at war with Civ A when Civ A caps you automatically get out of the war with Civ A, you don't automatically DoW Civ B (or visa versa).

I believe only Civ B needs Feudalism the same way you can trade techs with someone who as Alphabet even when you don't, but...maybe don't quote me on that.

 

[Tobiyogi]

I am quite sure that the vassaling civ needs Feudalism and not the mastered one. In general, B will declare on you. But if your relations with B are quite good, then B might not accept A as a vassal at all. Depends on the leader, if he accepts being bribed (technically it's a bribing) vs. someone at pleased. Power ratio with B is certainly also important. And like @AcaMetis said, you could foresee such an event and beg 1 Gold for 10T-peace treaty.

 

[dankok8]

I've had an AI I was smacking hard in a war become a peace vassal to someone they were Cautious with and who was obviously a military juggernaut. A war bribe is one thing but becoming a vassal is double annoying because now I can't even declare another war later to finish them off without fighting the big dog. And I was only Cautious with that civ as well so I couldn't beg for 1 gold for 10 turns of peace. Lesson learned: get potentially problematic AI's to Pleased.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Very interesting answers, thanks @AcaMetis, @Tobiyogi and @danko8. I had no idea vassaling civ will bribe the big dog to war with me, although it makes sense.

I am also very confused about the feudalism requirement. Based on experience playing as human, I thought just the master needs Feud. But since the weaker civ is bribing them, maybe the should have it (too)? or both?

 

[AcaMetis]

So I double-checked the civilopedea, and it has this to say about who needs Feudalism:

During peace time, a civilization can offer to become a vassal of a more powerful civilization with the knowledge of Feudalism.

(A war bribe vassal counts as a peace time vassal, not a war time capitulation.)

I've no idea if I'm supposed to read that as "a civ can offer...with the knowledge of Feudalism" or as "a more powerful civ with the knowledge of Feudalism". I'm assuming there's an answer in there, unfortunately I can't see it .

 

[Fine_Distinction]

So I double-checked the civilopedea, and it has this to say about who needs Feudalism:
(A war bribe vassal counts as a peace time vassal, not a war time capitulation.)

I've no idea if I'm supposed to read that as "a civ can offer...with the knowledge of Feudalism" or as "a more powerful civ with the knowledge of Feudalism". I'm assuming there's an answer in there, unfortunately I can't see it .

Hi AcaMetis, thanks a lot for digging this up! LOL, somebody managed to phrase it in a really confusing way My reading would be that "with the knowledge of Feudalism" describes the more powerful (latter) civ in this sentence." That would mirror experience of a human player, that to accept vassals you need Feudalism.

Minor civs you fight becoming a vassal of a more powerful ones you don't want to fight is a really annoying mechanics, imho. I was not playing in a little while and forgot how the things work with vassals, other that that it messed up many of my "conquer the world" plans

 

[6K Man]

Minor civs you fight becoming a vassal of a more powerful ones you don't want to fight is a really annoying mechanics, imho. I was not playing in a little while and forgot how the things work with vassals, other that that it messed up many of my "conquer the world" plans

Turn off vassals and turn on PAs. I did it and never looked back