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What if 9/11 happened in 2004 or not at all?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by test_specimen, Oct 25, 2004.

  1. test_specimen

    test_specimen hope lost

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    No, this is not about the US government postponing the election, it would probably be held. But what if the attack on the WTC would have been postponed about 3 years?

    No war in Afghanistan, that's for sure and probably also no war in Iraq (reason: missing pretext). How would the presidency of GWB have played out if he didn't have to respond to a singular and unprecedented event until the year of possible(?) re-election?

    Remember what was a hot topic, excluding 9/11 and the consequences:
    -Enron
    -Bush's tax break for the rich, tax break for companies
    -opening of protected areas to the oil drilling industry
    -refusal to sign the Kyoto protocoll
    -tariffs on imported steel
    -scrapping of the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty
    -Bush cutting funding to UNFPA (UN Population Fund, for family planning, sex-education, prevention of sexually transmitted infections, combatting violence against women and fighting for equality for women)
    -same-sex marriage in some states
    -medicare act (prohibiting negotiation of drug prices while subsidizing the pharmaceutical companies)
    -budgeting of about 400 billion $ for defense (cold war level)
    -no-child left behind act
    -at first granting funding to stem cell research and then severly cutting the possibilities for religious reasons
    -Great Lakes Act and Brownfields Act to clean up pollution and Healthy Forest Initiative
    -reduction of funding of natural desaster aid (except Florida in the election year)

    Things that would not have been possible:
    -Patriot Act
    -War in Afghanistan
    -War in Iraq
    -Alienation of foreign countries, international isolation

    How do you think the eleciton race would look like if you only had those topics to decide?
     
  2. Bugfatty300

    Bugfatty300 Buddha Squirrel

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    President Bush would most certainly be the winner of 04 election.
     
  3. CurtSibling

    CurtSibling ENEMY ACE™ SLeague Staff Supporter

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    Bush would have been ridiculed beyond belief - His unsound policies on show for all to see.

    And without the spectre of 9/11 to hide behind, his goose would be cooked.

    Hopefully a far better Republican leader could be found for the USA.

    ...
     
  4. joacqin

    joacqin Prince

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    Without 9/11 I think Bush would have serious problem, that atrocity came as a godsend for his administration. Bush's legitimacy was more or less non-existant before 9/11. The non-Fox media would probably have torn him to pieces for a number of scandals. Without 9/11 I wonder if Bush would even had sat his time out.
     
  5. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

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    But that had nothing to do with September 11th...
     
  6. ~Corsair#01~

    ~Corsair#01~ Deity

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    Yes, but "the war on terror" was one of the main excuses.
     
  7. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    According to the Project for a New American Century, the War in Iraq was planned BEFORE the September 11th.

    I agree that the war in Afghanistan wouldn't have happened, but this is certainly NOT true for the war in Iraq.
     
  8. test_specimen

    test_specimen hope lost

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    As I said in the initial post: the war in Iraq might not have happened because the main pretext was missing. That, off course, doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened at all. The Bush administration could still have claimed that Iraq posessed WMD and invaded anyway.

    Also the isolation of the US didn't necessarily have to happen. But if it happened other reasons would be the cause.
     
  9. Mapache

    Mapache Coronel

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    Could you specify?

    OK, 9/11 provided entertainment and deflection from other topics but I don't see any Watergate or other scandal.
     
  10. joacqin

    joacqin Prince

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    None more than Bush's legitimacy was extremely low and if Clinton almost fell because he got a blow job in the oval office and lied about it I am fairly sure that Bush would manage to do something even more warranting an impeachment or resignation. Parts of the media would be after him like mad dogs, there is just so much to go after with that guy.
     
  11. Marla_Singer

    Marla_Singer United in diversity

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    What else did they do ?

    When we see how thin was the reasons to invade Iraq, with or without 9/11, and how resolute was the administration to do it no matter what would happen, I don't think we can decently consider the war wouldn't have happened without the 9/11.

    I don't think the problem would have been about the pretext. Actually, I think that what would have missed would have been the thirst of revenge from the US audience. However, we don't know what would have happened in another case, maybe another bombing, maybe Israel/Palestine clash would have been bigger, anyway, there would have been dozens of trigger events justifying an invasion of Iraq.

    Anyway, this being said, I think that actually a war in Iraq would have certainly be less harmful if it wouldn't have been pictured as a retaliation to the Arab terrorism : a Saudi guy living in Aghanistan bomb New York and Washington and as a retaliation we invade Iraq. However, the problem of division between the Iraqi people would have still been the same and as such I'm not really sure it would have been a less murderous conflict.

    The reason of the US isolation is not the 9/11, the whole world has been behind the US after that tragic day. The reason of the US isolation is simply George W. Bush.
     
  12. Rhymes

    Rhymes Drive 4 25 is back

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    THink again, I dont think that the war in Iraq is the main reason of hatred toward the usa around the world. This event is like a needle in a hay stack!!!!

    Other thing: I'm not so paranoid as a person, but didn't it even occur once in your mind that 9/11 wasw one of the most benefict thing that could happen to GWB.
     
  13. CruddyLeper

    CruddyLeper Unworshipped Deity

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    If 9/11 didn't happen when it did, then the Taliban would have had 3 years to cut down opium production. Most effective anti-drug organisation ever.

    So it wouldn't all be good... or bad...

    What a dumb question. It happened. Deal with it.
     
  14. General Joey

    General Joey Warlord

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    If 9/11 didn't happen, it would mean my mum wouldn't have her birthday :(
     
  15. Double Barrel

    Double Barrel Deity

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    Without 09/11, he would be a one-term President, characterized by devoting 40% of his time to vacations, and the other 60% of his time devoted to rhetoric.

    Iraq would not have happened, period, regardless of what PNAC had planned.

    If you look at the 8 months he was in office prior to 09/11, there is not much to report. And I think this path is indicative of where he would have been heading with his administration and what we could have expected...which is not much of anything.
     
  16. Free Enterprise

    Free Enterprise The return stroke.

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    Without any warfare to be a political issue the economy would be a major bonus for Bush.

    For one thing the economy would be stronger (already is fairly strong) without the terrorist attacks and wars and another thing is that there would be much less spending. A lot of the new spending began soon after the 2001 terrorist attack. The GNP has been growing fairly quickly in recent times and perhaps could have done better under different international conditions. Bush would not be viewed as being disliked in many other countries as much as is the case currently.

    The issue of Iraq has harmed his relection chances somewhat due to the declining support for remaining in the country. Without the Iraq War Bush would have done better in the debates. Domestic rather than foreign policy is really what is better at dealing with.

    The strongest criticism of Bush stems from the distrust has received from his foreign policy. If he were more popular abroad that would make foreign policy almost a non-issue which would mean the contest would be about the economy. Bush's most serious weakness stems from the major mistakes that occured in his foreign policy. Without Iraq the Kyoto Protocol would harm him a bit, the end of the ABM treaty would not harm him in elections within the U.S. though perhaps slightly hurt opinion of him abroad. So basically he would not be perceived as having a one huge gaping weakness namely the problems with gaining approval from abroad. Rather there would only be lesser quibbles against him. As part of this Bush has invested enough effort in campaigning on economics which is partly or in more like primarily the fault of his excessive campaigning on foreign policy.

    It is true that Bush does have somewhat considerable support on security policies that he would not possess without the military and terrorist issues that are currently so dominant. However the economy if Bush had played on that enough would bury any Democratic competitor (without the economy it would be harder to trump Bush).

    Overall Bush would still not be that popular (though they would prefer him over a Democrat) with the core Republican base (who oppose many of his more leftist policies).

    About whether or not the Iraq War would have happened:
    It is quite obvious Iraq would not have been attacked without a pretext which came as a result of terrorist issue becoming prominent. There may or may not have been plans as to how Iraq should be attacked if the opportunity arose however it would not have happened because it would have been politically impossible. Thus without the terrorist issue all talk of an Iraq war would have merely remained a conspiracy theory.
     
  17. Longasc

    Longasc Deity

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    Without 9/11, Bush could not hide his incompetence and the warmongering attitude of his advisors behind "patriotism".

    Things like this gave the in general positive term patriotism a very very negative touch.
     
  18. Siegmund

    Siegmund King

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    If 9/11 happened now, right before the election, all sorts of odd things might happen -- would it be like the Iran Hostage Crisis destroying Carter's chances for a second term, or would it be like the week after the actual 9/11, when the mayor of NYC became a mythical heroic leader and every politician in the country wanted in on a piece of it? If it gave Bush an excuse to start a war before the election he'd get in again... there's nothing this country loves like a war... Bush Sr's 80-90% approval ratings during Gulf War I were beyond my comprehension, but it seems to be what the masses like.

    If 9/11 did not happen at all, a Bush vs. Kerry election would be a slaughter. His first year in office was such a disaster I doubt Bush Jr. would even have been the Republican nominee in 2004.
     
  19. Archer 007

    Archer 007 Rebirth

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    According to Bush it did.
     
  20. Quasar1011

    Quasar1011 King of Sylvania

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    If the 9/11 attacks had never happened, I'd most likely still be living in Atlanta, and be married to a wonderful lady from Colombia.
     

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