What is a conservative ?

[Bud2998]

Someone who supports the status quo.

I'm not so sure I can agree with this. Many conservatives today abhor at some of the status quo as of right now, for example a good portion of self-described conservatives do call for social security to be privatized which would be quite a change.

To be honest, a label as relative as "conservative" or "liberal" will vary greatly depending on whom you are speaking with. In American terms, however, I'd say a conservative is generally one who believes strongly in the free market system without thinking there needs to be very many regulations in place for it to work most effectively. Therefore, you'll see many advocating for the privatization of programs such as social security. This also coincides with advocating a smaller government and less government spending (with the notable exception of neo-conservatives), less welfare, etc. Just this alone, of course, would include a lot of libertarians as well, so there's more to it than just that - most conservatives also support, or at least personally admire, more traditional social values, which can include making references to Christianity more pervasive in school, courts, etc., a greater advocacy for gun ownership / rights, a more traditional view of marriage (namely in the opposition to homosexual marriages), and among others.

 

[phungus420]

Conservative in American politics means:

• Strong nationalistic tendancies
  This manifests itself in various ways, including:
  • Advocacy for beligerent foreign policy behaviors
  • Curbing citizen behavior and expression when threatening state supremecy (anti flag burning laws, etc)
• A theocratic based concept of social norms and ethics, which translates into advocating theocratic government actions (placing "Under God" in the pledge of alligiance, ban on gay marriage, etc)
• Property rights are considered superior to human wealfare
• Absolutist, and zero sum aproach to ethical issues. An eye for an eye, and other such simplistic euphamisms effectively sums up the moral depth of conservative ideology.

Not all American conservatives will subscribe to this entire list (but many do). However to be a conservative in America one of these bullets must be the most pertinent issue when it comes to politics. It is a bizzare alliance actually, as the Theocrats and Free Marketers come into conflict very often. But it is the way politics in the US have played out, and to be a conservative you must either be fiercely nationalistic, consider property rights superior to societal welfare, be inclined toward theocratic legislation, or be limited to Stage 1-3 Moral Reasoning (usually itself tied to fierce nationalism, theocracy, or property rights; simply because being inclined to consider higher level --stage 4-6 moral cognition-- does not lend itself to these tenents) to consider oneself conservative in modern American Politics.

 

[Cutlass]

What it really means, and what it means in the current American political/social/economic/religious context are entirely different things. The people who have laid claim to the name conservative in America in recent times do not fit much of any actual definition that would, in and of itself, describe conservatives. However that's what they're called, so we're stuck with the name.

 

[phungus420]

What it really means, and what it means in the current American political/social/economic/religious context are entirely different things. The people who have laid claim to the name conservative in America in recent times do not fit much of any actual definition that would, in and of itself, describe conservatives. However that's what they're called, so we're stuck with the name.

I personally find this line of reasoning irrelevant. Words have meaning because they are accepted standards of categorizing sounds (or other medium such as hand gestures or visual representations) in order to share information with other humans. If you are in the US, and someone tells you they are conservative, they do not mean to say they wish to conserve the status quo, they mean they are fiercely nationalistic, theocratic, or believe property rights supercede social wealfare.

 

[Cutlass]

I personally find this line of reasoning irrelevant. Words have meaning because they are accepted standards of categorizing sounds (or other medium such as hand gestures or visual representations) in order to share information with other humans. If you are in the US, and someone tells you they are conservative, they do not mean to say they wish to conserve the status quo, they mean they are fiercely nationalistic, theocratic, or believe property rights supercede social wealfare.

But not always. JerichoHill would call himself a conservative, but, IIRC, would not meet your other descriptors.

How if a person SCREAMED that they are a conservative, as many do, then you would be right. And that's the problem in America today. The people who are most in your face demanding that they are conservatives really are not. But what else are we to call them?

 

[jessiecat]

But not always. JerichoHill would call himself a conservative, but, IIRC, would not meet your other descriptors.

How if a person SCREAMED that they are a conservative, as many do, then you would be right. And that's the problem in America today. The people who are most in your face demanding that they are conservatives really are not. But what else are we QUOTE]

The enemy?

 

[jessiecat]

But not always. JerichoHill would call himself a conservative, but, IIRC, would not meet your other descriptors.

How if a person SCREAMED that they are a conservative, as many do, then you would be right. And that's the problem in America today. The people who are most in your face demanding that they are conservatives really are not.
But what else are we to call them?

Fools?

 

[mrt144]

Someone who supports the status quo.

of a bygone era.

 

[civ_king]

As a great man once said "A conservative is a man with two perfectly good legs who, however, has never learned how to walk forward."

 

[AngryZealot]

I AM AN AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE

This morning I was awoken by my alarm clock powered by electricity generated by the public power monopoly regulated by the US department of energy. I then took a shower in the clean water provided by the municipal water utility. After that, I turned on the TV to one of the FCC regulated channels to see what the national weather service of the national oceanographic and atmospheric administration determined the weather was going to be like using satellites designed, built, and launched by the national aeronautics and space administration. I watched this while eating my breakfast of US department of agriculture inspected food and taking the drugs which have been determined as safe by the food and drug administration.

At the appropriate time as regulated by the US congress and kept accurate by the national institute of standards and technology and the US naval observatory, I get into my national highway traffic safety administration approved automobile and set out to work on the roads build by the local, state, and federal departments of transportation, possibly stopping to purchase additional fuel of a quality level determined by the environmental protection agency, using legal tender issed by the federal reserve bank. On the way out the door I deposit any mail I have to be sent out via the US postal service and drop the kids off at the public school.

After spending another day not being maimed or killed at work thanks to the workplace regulations imposed by the department of labor and the occupational safety and health administration, enjoying another two meals which again do not kill me because of the USDA, I drive my NHTSA car back home on the DOT roads, to ny house which has not burned down in my absence because of the state and local building codes and fire marshal’s inspection, and which has not been plundered of all it’s valuables thanks to the local police department.

I then log on to the internet which was developed by the defense advanced research projects administration and post on freerepublic.com and fox news forums about how SOCIALISM in medicine is BAD because the government can’t do anything right.

Not all conservatives obviously, but it covers a significant portion of them.

 

[amadeus]

Not all conservatives obviously, but it covers a significant portion of them.

It is also stupid and simplistic... I could write an opposite one for all of the statists out there, but that would be the same only with an opposite political slant.

 

[BasketCase]

Heheh. Check out what I found.

Wikipedia for Conservatives

Now, before anybody goes crying foul--this is no different from Mother Jones or the San Francisco Guardian. And it sums up (in far fewer words) what I pointed out in my last post. There's no one thing that makes a person a conservative, because from Conservapedia and from these recent town hall protests over health care, it's clear conservatives are learning how to protest loudly and whack people on the heads with picket signs.

 

[Miles Teg]

It is also stupid and simplistic... I could write an opposite one for all of the statists out there, but that would be the same only with an opposite political slant.

It is however a decent satire of the people who don't feel the government is capable of doing anything efficiently, just as your version would probably do the same for the private sector.

 

[AngryZealot]

It is also stupid and simplistic... I could write an opposite one for all of the statists out there, but that would be the same only with an opposite political slant.

And I would totally agree with you. But in America at least, a sizeable portion of "conservatives" don't appear to know what they're conservative about. They hate some imaginary beast but can't explain it in any tangible terms. I would argue they're not technically conservatives, but they call themselves that and I don't have a better term. PPP did a poll that found 39% of voters (62% of Republicans) think the government should stay out of medicare. Obviously that makes no sense whatsoever, but it is what it is.

 

[Murky]

The real meaning of the term has long since been lost in translation. Originally, it meant a person who tended to consume less, thus saving more resources for the long term.

Now it's tied to something much less noble and has very little to do with conservation.

 

[civ_king]

And I would totally agree with you. But in America at least, a sizeable portion of "conservatives" don't appear to know what they're conservative about. They hate some imaginary beast but can't explain it in any tangible terms. I would argue they're not technically conservatives, but they call themselves that and I don't have a better term. PPP did a poll that found 39% of voters (62% of Republicans) think the government should stay out of medicare. Obviously that makes no sense whatsoever, but it is what it is.

 

[storical]

Since the status quo is liberal, how can one be a conservative by supporting liberal programs ?
Can one be a liberal while supporting conservative programs ?

The status quo may change not to our liking, through the fault of the liberals. They could fix things right but their proposals are radical to say the least. They are trying to fix things too fast too soon. Americans seem to know when something just seems fishy, even liberal supporters will realize before long. Sometimes by trying to help everyone you end up hurting everyone, no matter how valid the intentions may be. Too many loopholes in their proposals for disaster, on the outside they seem like good ideas, until you look at the consequences of the outcomes in depth.

 

[Phlegmak]

Heheh. Check out what I found.

Wikipedia for Conservatives

Now, before anybody goes crying foul--this is no different from Mother Jones or the San Francisco Guardian. And it sums up (in far fewer words) what I pointed out in my last post. There's no one thing that makes a person a conservative, because from Conservapedia and from these recent town hall protests over health care, it's clear conservatives are learning how to protest loudly and whack people on the heads with picket signs.

Man, where have you been? Conservapedia is already world famous. It's also an amazing load of craziness. For giggles, I looked at this recently:

http://www.conservapedia.com/Same_sex_marriage

Same-sex "marriage" is at the forefront of the gay rights movement's attempt to normalize the rights of homosexuals with those of heterosexuals, overturning centuries of established tradition whereby homosexuals were required to keep their blasphemous acts hidden, protecting society from their immorality.

 

[Gustave5436]

It is also stupid and simplistic... I could write an opposite one for all of the statists out there, but that would be the same only with an opposite political slant.

Statists are by definition conservative (or, in some cases, reactionary).