What is best diffuculty/map size/game speed for this mod?

[raxo2222]

Also there are 2 map scripts (Smartmap and something else), that allows you to override your map size choice, essentially turning it into game pace choice next (duel/gigantic would mean only faster/slower game) to normal game speed option (normal/eternity).

Also if someone is testing game without AI, its possible to speed up extremely fast game by choosing Settler/Normal/Duel (with map size override on Smartmap script optionally).

Slowest game would be on Deity/Eternity/Gigantic (with Smartmap you can actually make smaller map)

Also what options are 1:1:1 meaning research/build costs are same as defined in xml files
Example: some tech is defined to cost 100 beakers, and it costs 100 beakers in game with certian settings

 

[Toffer90]

Also what options are 1:1:1 meaning research/build costs are same as defined in xml files
Example: some tech is defined to cost 100 beakers, and it costs 100 beakers in game with certian settings

No option combination will give you this at the moment.

Settler/Small/Normal, Chieftain/Tiny/Normal, and Warlord/Duel/Normal are close to a 1:1 ratio.

 

[raxo2222]

---------------------------------------------------------------XML assumptions:
Map size change research cost between 50% of base for Duel and 200% for Gigantic. (4x difference) No modifiers for unit/building production costs here

Handicap changes research cost between 60% for Settler and 150% for Deity (for player). (2.5x difference) AI builds faster on higher diffuculiies (160% cost on lowest 60% of cost on highest)

Game speed changes research speed between 250% for Normal and 2100% for Eternity (8.4x difference). Production cost is between 800% on slowest and 100% on fastest settings.

This means you build relatively faster comparing to research speed on Gigantic/Eternity/Deity.
This means in ultrafast configuration Duel/Settler/Normal research cost is 75% of defined cost and ultraslow configuration of Gigantic/Eternity/Deity it is 6300% of defined cost.
Comparitevely build costs are 1x on fastest settings and 8x on slowest settings. That means on slowest settings its easier to build everythhing and produce military - you are waiting anyway for stuff to research.
This is what I got from xml files, that determinate game pace.

This means its improbable to have proper dates roll, when someone reaches certian era, as given research cost may vary between 30% and 300% depending on map size/diffuculty combo.

-----------------------------------------------------------------Checking values in game:
To put research costs in perspective:
On Settler/Duel/Normal first tech costs ONE beaker and most of prechistory era techs are researchable in one turn with starting city and nothing in it.
Last tech is magnificiently expensice and costs 720 000 beakers. (almost 6 orders of magnitude)
Brute: 5 hammers
Monte Verde: 50 hammers
Heaven: 50622 hammers.
Production costs increase only 1000 times from start of game to end of game.

On other speed extreme of Deity/Gigantic/Eternity starting techs cost 261 beakers and last tech costs 151 200 000 beakers (579 310 times higher cost)
Training Brute: 40 hammers
Creating Monte Verde (first possible world wonder) costs 400 hammers.
Creating Heaven (last wonder you unlock (with space colonization modmod) needs 404976 hammers.
This means cost of research rises 500 000 times while cost of building rises only 1000 times.

You can cleanly see, that there was one 800% modifier in build times from gamespeed - diffuculty and map size doesn't change building/unit creation costs.

So it seems that only material cost of creating units/buildings is inclused in building costs meaning its easier to build stuff for more advanced civ.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Map size change research cost between 50% of base for Duel and 200% for Gigantic. (4x difference) No modifiers for unit/building production costs here

Handicap changes research cost between 60% for Settler and 150% for Deity (for player). (2.5x difference) AI builds faster on higher diffuculiies (160% cost on lowest 60% of cost on highest)

Game speed changes research speed between 250% for Normal and 2100% for Eternity (8.4x difference). Production cost is between 800% on slowest and 100% on fastest settings.

This means you build relatively faster comparing to research speed on Gigantic/Eternity/Deity.
This means in ultrafast configuration Duel/Settler/Normal research cost is 75% of defined cost and ultraslow configuration of Gigantic/Eternity/Deity it is 6300% of defined cost.
Comparitevely build costs are 1x on fastest settings and 8x on slowest settings. That means on slowest settings its easier to build everythhing and produce military - you are waiting anyway for stuff to research.
This is what I got from xml files, that determinate game pace.

This means its improbable to have proper dates roll, when someone reaches certian era, as given research cost may vary between 30% and 300% depending on map size/diffuculty combo.

You are missing much information in your "xml" assessments of how this all works.

Most of the Modders are stuck on the old "recommended" scale of Snail/Immortal/Huge for testing(map size varies but many use huge). DH uses Snail/Noble/ (? iirc I think he said standard) for his testing.

I use them all for testing, but prefer Normal/Epic/Marathon for GS, Emperor, and large/huge Maps for personal games.

Build times for units Were at one time adjusted to GS as well as research. But some changes were made and are in the process of being re-evaluated by me.

Also the order in which the research modifiers are applied were also recently changed. There is a ladder type process. Under the "old" system I had a pretty good handle on which ones needed adjustments 1st vs last. But that too was changed and is back in re-evaluation process.

So as I stated your general xml assumptions and evaluations are in error because of missing information. And I will leave it at that.

 

[raxo2222]

You are missing much information in your "xml" assessments of how this all works.

Most of the Modders are stuck on the old "recommended" scale of Snail/Immortal/Huge for testing(map size varies but many use huge). DH uses Snail/Noble/ (? iirc I think he said standard) for his testing.

I use them all for testing, but prefer Normal/Epic/Marathon for GS, Emperor, and large/huge Maps for personal games.

Build times for units Were at one time adjusted to GS as well as research. But some changes were made and are in the process of being re-evaluated by me.

Also the order in which the research modifiers are applied were also recently changed. There is a ladder type process. Under the "old" system I had a pretty good handle on which ones needed adjustments 1st vs last. But that too was changed and is back in re-evaluation process.

So as I stated your general xml assumptions and evaluations are in error because of missing information. And I will leave it at that.

Well XML assumptions are only for first part of my post.
In second part I took data directly from game.
Building cost differences scaled same way in my XLM assumptions and in game.

And you are right on research cost: in game research costs behave differently than I assumed by XML: there is 261x cost increase instead of my assumed 63x cost increase for cheapest tech.
For most expensive tech there is difference of 210x between most extreme settings.
Wonder how tech costs are calculated from defined one.

Research costs isn't simple speedmodifier*mapsizemodifier*diffucultymodifier it seems.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Research costs isn't simple speedmodifier*mapsizemodifier*diffucultymodifier it seems.

Exactly

 

[JosEPh_II]

And you are right on research cost: in game research costs behave differently than I assumed by XML: there is 261x cost increase instead of my assumed 63x cost increase for cheapest tech.
For most expensive tech there is difference of 210x between most extreme settings.
Wonder how tech costs are calculated from defined one.

Why is this important to you?

 

[raxo2222]

Why is this important to you?

Pure curiosity.

 

[Toffer90]

Let's try to satisfy your curiosity then. ^^

XML values:
Base cost defined in CIV4TechInfos.xml as <iCost> tag.
Global adjustment defined in TechDiffusion_GlobalDefines.xml as TECH_COST_MODIFIER define.
Adjustment to base cost per era defined in CIV4EraInfos.xml as <iTechCostModifier> tag (0 means no change and this adjustment does not care what era the player is at, only what era the tech is at)
Game Option and situational dependant scalers:
Gamespeed scaler defined in CIV4GameSpeedInfo.xml as <iResearchPercent> tag.
Handicap scaler defined in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml as <iResearchPercent> tag.
World scaler defined in CIV4HandicapInfo.xml as <iResearchPercent> tag.
Era scaler defined in CIV4EraInfos.xml as <iResearchPercent> tag (Change cost of all techs depending on what era the player is in).
Other:
BeelineSting defined in CIV4EraInfos.xml as <iBeelineStingsTechCostModifier> tag.
Number of Team members scaler defined in GlobalDefines.xml as TECH_COST_EXTRA_TEAM_MEMBER_MODIFIER define; that define is multiplied with the number of players in the relevant team.
Team = ("member count" - 1) * TECH_COST_EXTRA_TEAM_MEMBER_MODIFIER + 100

Math:
Base * ( (Global + 100) * (Adjustment + 100) / 10 000 ) * ( Gamespeed / 100 ) * ( (Era - 100 + Handicap -100 + World -100 + BeelineSting + 100) / 100 ) * (Team / 100 ) = tech cost.
Wrote up the math real quick so there may be mistakes. (Edit: Formula has now been corrected based on SirJohnEh's observation.)