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What is easiest way to beat Deity (Standard map/ pace; Ancient Era Start))?

Discussion in 'Strategy Section' started by MIS, Feb 25, 2020.

  1. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    I'd like to work up to beating Deity (eventually, I'm going to start lower). What's the easiest (not quickest) way:

    1) Victory Condition
    2) Civilization
    3) Map Type e.g. Pangaea, Great Plains Plus, Fractal etc.

    I'm looking for advantageous standard settings, not the non-CBP equivalent of "Duel, Domination, Mongolia".

    I'm trying the new Beta, so I'm sure things will change slightly. If you base your answer of a previous patch, that's fine also.

    I originally went for tall science, because that's the easiest in non-CBP. I'm not sure that's the case in CBP.

    And I realize that a goal of CBP is to allow all methods of victory, but some are always less difficult than others. If I ever beat Deity at the least difficult VC, I'll try second least difficult, etc.

    Thanks,
    M
     
  2. crdvis16

    crdvis16 Emperor

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    Assuming you have good military tactics, domination is probably the way to go using a civ like Mongolia or any with strong early military power. Preferably on Pangaea to avoid having to do amphibious invasions. After conquering a bit you'll notice that your opponents have a "warmonger fervor" bonus against you which will get quite high and make killing enemy units of the same tech level increasingly difficult. You'd need to make sure that when that debuff gets high your only opponents have units of lesser eras than you which means you typically need to kill the strongest civs first.

    If you want to stay tall and peaceful I'd do Korea for science, Arabia for culture, or Austria/Germany for diplo probably. Austria in particular can win a diplo victory even if she's behind in science because of the massive number of votes she gets (and the requirements for diplo victory are that any civ has unlocked the relavant techs, not necessarily you yourself).
     
  3. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    I'd say the easiest way is Songhai on Pangea with authority. Very good early UU to beat up your neighbors and harrass city states. Pangea likes to spawn huge rivers which makes the UA and the UB absurdly good.
     
    SuperNoobCamper likes this.
  4. tothePAIN

    tothePAIN Warlord

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    On the current patch, I'd actually say Greece on Pangea with Authority/Statecraft/Imperialism. Hoplites are really strong now.
     
  5. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    3/1 Beta questions on this strategy:
    1. Are Pyramids a good plan, since it's back in mining?
    2. If you settle on a mining luxury, do you sell it if you can get 6:c5gold:/turn? When do you need the luxuries to kick in by?
    3. Together with Pyramids settler and Autocracy settler, how many other settlers should I build? Or do you ignore Pottery and go straight for Construction (Tabya)->Masonry (Terracotta Army)?
    4. With Autocracy, do you go LHS to rush second settler?
    5. T23 you can steal a worker, and get it back home. Is it worth it in general (even with 50% slower penalty)? I guess I don't see any disadvantage if you are trading with them.
    6. Do you ever capture a CS?
    7. You tribute all CS apart from Friendly Cultural? Do you wait until you get "Tribute" Policy? Is there a limit, e.g. you meet a new CS T37, you still asking for tribute straight away, if they don't have a good quest?
    Thanks y'all,
    M
     
  6. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    1. I usually go animal husbandry-mining-military theory, if there are horses in the capital. If you don't think you'll have horses, Pyramids are a pretty good idea.
    2. Yes I sell luxuries for gold early on
    3. It depends on the land available. Usually I pump on military units until I get pottery and my third policy, then pump out settles until the land is full.
    4. LHS? I'm guessing you mean the left path on the social policy tree? yes I almost always take it before the right, and often I wait to place settlers until after I acquire that policy.
    5. Maybe, if its close to my land.
    6. Yes. If there is a civil war quest I strongly consider it.
    7. I tribute all CS unless I get a quest I really want. You want to clear at least one camp to get tribute quickly, then use culture from tribute to get your third policy quickly.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
  7. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Are you filling to maximize cities (so they will be 4-5 spaces apart), or to prevent the AI from filling (so 6-7 spaces apart), or are you only concentrating on the land? How much do you prioritize being defensible when you are Songhai?

    Thanks,
    M
     
  8. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    City placement really depends on the map. There's usually no need to block AI from settling because you can just capture the city for free science and culture.

    Defense? The best defense is a good offense, just be aggressive.
     
  9. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    3. You generally go for Pottery straight after Military Theory? Do you only build a couple of ManCavs before switching to Settlers, or do you fill up the supply/horse cap first? Would you consider Construction first, for the Tabya?
    7. If you meet a CS really early, do you delay demanding tribute until getting that social policy? For clearing barb camps, do you buy a warrior to help with this and let the pathfinder keep exploring, or use the pathfinder as a military unit also, even at the cost of exploring (on Pangaea)?
    Why do you turn off ancient ruins in your games?

    Thanks,
    M
     
  10. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    You need pottery quickly, you can't wait until after both military theory and construction.

    I build Mandekalu (or buy with gold) until I use all my horses.

    I usually have 3 warriors with authority.

    Your pathfinder should explore to meet city states and get quests. You shouldn't need him for combat.

    I turn off ancient ruins because they can impact the game too much in my experience. A free worker from a gold ruin is such a high roll. Also, sometimes the AI snowball like crazy with ruins enabled.
     
  11. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    I took Denmark’s second city. By T70 everyone has walls. (I watched a video from the previous patch, and at T105 AI cities don’t have walls or garrisons– is this a new patch issue?) I blockaded Shoshone’s 2nd City and he has a Spearman and Archer inside (I didn’t know that was possible; I assume only because he’s blockaded) and other spearman and stuff. Even my ManCav’s do almost nothing with the Spearman inside. How do you fight a city like this as Songhai?

    Do you Annex the cities then starve them until Philosophy?

    Do you go after non-authority civs first? Or just whoever’s closest? Best cities?

    Do you wait to enhance your religion before spreading it with Missionaries etc.?

    Thanks,
    M
     
  12. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    You probably need catapults against walls, or you need a lot of drill promotions. Just war him, kill units, and pillage things for now. Sometimes the AI gets walls early, sometimes they don't, it just depends on the techs they research.

    I sometimes annex cities like this, especially if they keep a shrine on conquest and I want the faith. Sometimes I puppet a few, it just depends.

    You want to go after non-authority civs first only because authority civs tend to research spearmen so quickly. Sometimes I spread out and attack a few civs, while also hunting barbarians everywhere and harrasing the city states everywhere.

    Religion depends on many things. Generally I enhance first, but some beliefs change my mind (for example Council of Elders)
     
  13. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Build order for non-capital cities: If you the techs, do you go for Production buildings (Well/Water Mill/Tabya); or straight for Shrine/Barracks/ManCavs? What about Monuments for the Tribute Social Policy bonus from border expansion?

    With the 3-15 Patch and City-States not clearing Barb Camps, do you think Aztec might now be stronger than Songhai for Pangaea domination?

    Many Thanks,
    MIS
     
  14. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    They are both great civs, but I think Mandekalu cavalry are just insane with the current state of cities. Tabya > Floating gardens IMO.

    For build order..........it depends on a lot of things. Generally monuments are really good. Shrine are obviously important if you want to found a religion. I usually don't build a production building first just because authority has plenty of production and usually I'm more concerned about faith, culture, or science. Just build whatever you think you need the most.
     
  15. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Is a religion worth it for Songhai Authority? You have to invest in shrines while there are plenty of other things to build. I like the pantheon “God of the Open Sky”, but the beliefs don’t grab me in the same way. In a different post, you said Science>Gold>Culture>>Production>>>Food, and that Cathedrals were great. Would you prioritize Science so much on a Pangaea map with no obvious runaway? Would the following make sense (knowing there will be some changes based on the specific game):

    Pantheon: God of the Open Sky
    Founder Belief: Council of Elders
    Follower Belief: Scholarship
    Enhancer Belief: Mendicancy
    Follower Belief (2): Cathedrals
    Reformation Belief: Crusader Spirit

    For Pangaea warmonger, what’s your second/third culture tree? Do you still go imperialism (even though the naval bonuses are wasted)?
     
  16. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    Imperialism can still be worthwhile without much navy (though even on pangea a small navy can have value). In general I think its the best 3rd policy tree, it just has huge bonuses to a variety of things. The monopoly thing alone can be huge.

    That religious plan looks pretty good to me. You still want science with no runaways, having knights before your enemy will just make everything easier.
     
  17. MIS

    MIS Prince

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    Thanks for answering:
    1) what do you take after Authority, for your second tree?
    2) How do you use Great Generals. They never catch up to my ManCavs, so I don’t get much use out of them.
    3) My warmongering is hamstrung by unhappiness, however much infrastructure I build. I take over cities and starve them down. I’m playing on low levels. Is this less of an issue on Deity, because you can’t take cities as quickly. (On T96 and I just took my 4th capital). Lower levels give more empire happiness but doesn’t seem to affect unhappiness directly (though being compared to weaker AI cities may give indirect help. How do you handle it?
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
  18. CrazyG

    CrazyG Deity

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    1) All of fealty, statecraft, and artistry are good choices.
    2) Sounds like you are kicking so much butt that isn't actually a problem. Usually you want at least one great general for the bonus, and the others can help you break through tough areas with a citadel. Late game citadels become really good with Lebrensaum.
    3) Raise or puppet the cities. Or just slow down the conquering. 4 capitals by turn 96 is crazy fast.
     
  19. Heinz_Guderian

    Heinz_Guderian Chieftain

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    Even Guderian would be impressed by that speed :)
     
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  20. Cokolwiek

    Cokolwiek Warlord

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    From 10 of May to 22 of June 1940, The Hague, Brussels, Luxembourg, and Paris. Basically, doable in real life. ;) Especially considering 96 turns early game is more akin to 4000 years than 40 days.
     
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