What is going on in the UK?

[Senethro]

So your counter-argument of me saying "the west has given the world most of the inventions of today" is "nuh, uh, Japan has developed electronics, too." ?
And you brush over everything else I listed.

That's not a counter argument, it's self evidently false racist fantasy. The part I was interested in was how you define things to even think this way. Are you from the 1950s? Do you think China doesn't produce papers or medical advances?

Are you ignorant or are you just working to odd criteria?

 

[danjuno]

I recommend you check out the work of Angus Maddison—he was a British macroeconomist who tried to come up with figures for historical GDP. According to his last published edition, he estimated that most of (following present borders) continental Europe had the most productive economies per capita in 1500, Italy being far in the lead—this would have been before the growth of transoceanic trade.

This isn’t to say that Europe was then a totally dominating economic force that could have imposed its will globally (if it could have at that time, I imagine it would have) but it did, on average, have some of the world’s wealthiest areas by a rate of 2.5:1 for Italy and 2:1 for other parts of Europe as compared to China or the Aztecs.

It is unfair to say that Europe represented a backwater in at least the century preceding the discovery of the Americas.

Interesting. Backwater is a little strong, though it does show China and India in the lead before the colonial age.

 

[Theov]

That's not a counter argument, it's self evidently false racist fantasy. The part I was interested in was how you define things to even think this way. Are you from the 1950s? Do you think China doesn't produce papers or medical advances?

Are you ignorant or are you just working to odd criteria?

This discussion was about how western culture has given us almost all modern inventions. Keyword; almost, second keyword: modern.
Did I say others don't? No.
Did I say everything? No.
Did I say something racist? No.
You're not having an honest discussion here.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Western culture also gave us concentration camps, nuclear weapons, plastics etc so it's impossible to say if it’s good or bad

 

[Senethro]

This discussion was about how western culture has given us almost all modern inventions. Keyword; almost, second keyword: modern.
Did I say others don't? No.
Did I say everything? No.
Did I say something racist? No.
You're not having an honest discussion here.

You might genuinely hold this belief out of ignorance, but I note you're also still unable to explain why - or how it might relate to a supposed need to defend against immigration. If you think there is a genetic reason for it, that would definitely be racist.

 

[Theov]

You might genuinely hold this belief out of ignorance, but I note you're also still unable to explain why - or how it might relate to a supposed need to defend against immigration.

Because immigrants in large numbers from another culture change the culture of a country.
And if I recall correctly, we started this discussion with illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. Not the same.

My questions for you.
- do you disagree?
- what do you think of the mass immigration into the west? If you think there is any.
- what do you think of the cultures in the west?

If you think there is a genetic reason for it, that would definitely be racist.

Yes, and if a square is round, it's a circle.

 

[Senethro]

Because immigrants in large numbers from another culture change the culture of a country.
And if I recall correctly, we started this discussion with illegal immigrants and asylum seekers. Not the same.

My questions for you.
- do you disagree?
- what do you think of the mass immigration into the west? If you think there is any.
- what do you think of the cultures in the west?


Yes, and if a square is round, it's a circle.

Yes I disagree. Illegal immigrants and asylum seekers don't occur in the numbers required, but legal immigration does. So when you get scared about supposed changing cultures, what I'm hearing is All Immigration, even if you say otherwise.

I think any mass immigration into the north pales compared to what will happen in 30-50 years time the first time there is a widespread climate change caused famine (as compared with the localized ones we are seeing now). If assimilation and management capability is not in place by then, or if your lot get to set the agenda, it'll be machinegun nests and concentration camps along the borders.

The cultures of the west seem to be in a race to eat each other and to raise and create new oligarchies, while engaging in the most wilful blindness to their own failures to address inequality, erosion of democracy and moving to a sustainable economy.

So, given my statements above, I guess you could say I believe we are scheduled for overwhelming, inevitable changes that will be a threat on the nation state scale, and that pissing about over a few immigrants here and there now is a waste of time. (as well as often being due to racist motives) The culture changes will happen. Better make sure they're they're the ones you want.

 

[Theov]

if your lot get to set the agenda, it'll be machinegun nests and concentration camps along the borders.

I've tried.
But with phrases like those above and others before, I can only conclude it's impossible to have sensible discussion with you.
However, it's interesting to see you agree with me - but you think it all doesn't matter because it'll be worse in the future.

That's a fantastic conclusion to this discussion.
I wish you all the best.

 

[Samson]

British government fails in bid to jail Palestine supporter on terrorism charges

In the UK’s latest political prosecution, a woman has been acquitted of thought crime after she expressed support for Palestinians. Natalie Strecker - an academic and former human rights monitor in Palestine - was prosecuted by Jersey Police following accusations that she had invited support for Hamas and Hezbollah.

Given the wave of similar prosecutions across the UK, this does not appear to be an isolated error, but rather a systematic attempt to stifle support for Palestinians.

Strecker has been involved with the Jersey Palestine Solidarity Campaign for many years. She made the comments “support the resistance”, “solidarity with the resistance” and “long live the resistance” on Twitter and TikTok. This prompted Jersey police to trawl through thousands of her social media posts, and despite not finding a single expression of support for a proscribed group, they decided Strecker must support Hamas and Hezbollah and therefore be a terrorist.

Police charged Strecker with two offences under the Terrorism Law 2002, even though she had posted “I don’t support Hamas” and “this is a call for non-violent action”. In other words, you can now be prosecuted if police decide you secretly meant the opposite of what you actually said.

The prosecution argued in court that it is an offence under the Terrorism Law 2002 to say Palestinians have a right to resistance under international law. We’re not talking about Hamas here, the judge specifically asked them if, for example, it would be illegal to tell an international law class that Palestinians have a right to resistance and the prosecution insisted it was, arguing “Resistance is synonymous with Hamas and Hezbollah”.

It appears the prosecution feels Palestinians have no right to self-defence, even during a genocide - that would be a racist, genocidal position. We can only assume it is the private position of the UK government because one of its senior lawyers, Alison Morgan KC, was involved in the prosecution.

 

[Senethro]

I've tried.
But with phrases like those above and others before, I can only conclude it's impossible to have sensible discussion with you.
However, it's interesting to see you agree with me - but you think it all doesn't matter because it'll be worse in the future.

That's a fantastic conclusion to this discussion.
I wish you all the best.

There hasn't been a discussion. You've evaded every question about WHY you think the way you do, just repeated that you do, and so now I assume its for even worse reasons.

 

[danjuno]

There hasn't been a discussion. You've evaded every question about WHY you think the way you do, just repeated that you do, and so now I assume its for even worse reasons.

I wonder if there's something they're afraid to admit.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Jersey is NOT part of the UK

Government of Jersey

Learn about Jersey's relationship with the UK and EU

www.gov.je

 

[Samson]

Jersey is NOT part of the UK

Government of Jersey

Learn about Jersey's relationship with the UK and EU

www.gov.je

But we could get them to not be a massive tax haven if wanted to.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Whose the "we" ?

 

[danjuno]

Jersey is NOT part of the UK

Government of Jersey

Learn about Jersey's relationship with the UK and EU

www.gov.je

It's a dependency, you are quibbling.

 

[Lexicus]

Jersey is NOT part of the UK

Government of Jersey

Learn about Jersey's relationship with the UK and EU

www.gov.je

"The General Government is not part of Germany"

 

[Samson]

Whose the "we" ?

Well, it certainly includes the UK government. The "democracy 101" answer be those would could express electoral power agaisnt the psudo-british tax havens around the world, with I think includes both me and you, but it would require more than just the two of us

 

[Arwon]

Western culture also gave us concentration camps, nuclear weapons, plastics etc so it's impossible to say if it’s good or bad

Also communism!

 

[EnglishEdward]

Well, it certainly includes the UK government. The "democracy 101" answer be those would could express electoral power agaisnt the psudo-british tax havens around the world, with I think includes both me and you, but it would require more than just the two of us

Jersey is not part of the UK. It has self determination. For the UK government to dictate what its tax rates should be would be colonialism.

 

[danjuno]

colonialism.

Not what that word means.