What is going on in the UK?

[Cloud_Strife]

I can only dream of having a life so good that I require extensive therapy.

If your most pressing issue is that the inclusion of trans people offends your sensibilities then yes, you have a pretty charmed life when the majority are struggling to male ends meet and stay sane on a dying world, but sure dude again with the disingenuous worm logic

 

[Plotinus]

As far as I am concerned the fewer laws, high court decisions and policy codes etc the better.

That's fine if you're in a position of privilege and you don't need laws to protect you from discrimination. For those who are less privileged, they are essential.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Many laws create more problems than they solve.

And many laws are about protecting the privileged.

 

[Plotinus]

True, but that's an argument for having better laws, not fewer. And one can hardly say that laws protecting trans rights are about protecting the privileged, so that's not really a relevant concern here.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Having laws that means anyone that disagrees with them gets expelled,
prosecuted or sacked elevates them into a very privileged position.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Having laws that means anyone that disagrees with them gets expelled,
prosecuted or sacked elevates them into a very privileged position.

You're delusional if you think being trans is privileged in a country actively removing basic human necessities from them such as toilet provisions.

I feel so privileged in having to genuinely worry whether today I'll be arrested or assaulted for using toilets i could previously use

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I feel so privileged being treated like a delusional, mentally ill man by both society and law.

I feel so privileged having to jump through humiliating hoops to access healthcare and legal recognition, up to and includingbeing asked by my genitals, sexual fantasies and other intrusive questions in order to secure help that is then constantly at the risk of being withdrawn.

I feel so privileged having to endure bigotry that places me and other trans people in the same category as sex offenders, having to endure slurs and views specifically designed to humiliate and harrass me.

I feel so privileged being a part of a minority that is currently the scapegoat for societies issues, being blamed for things including the collapse of western civilization, lack of child safety and sexual abuse of cis women.

I feel so privileged knowing there's a well funded, concerted effort to deprive me of basic rights and to demonize us as the next folk devil/moral panic, given oxygen and support by both society, the media and government, that's constantly looking for weak points in what defenses exist for people like me.

In your frankly detached from reality mind, we're all privileged because you might risk getting in trouble if you abuse trans people at work

You're privileged as a cis dude eddy, I and other trans people are not, yet you still peddle this delusion that i have some sort of power, where was that power throughout my lifetime?

Or does it exist solely within your brain and what you imagine trans people to be?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

True, but that's an argument for having better laws, not fewer. And one can hardly say that laws protecting trans rights are about protecting the privileged, so that's not really a relevant concern here.

The problem here, if I'm interpreting the WI statement correctly, is precisely because of too much legislation, and conflicting legislation effectively causing roadblocks for the causes it's trying to serve. Hard rules and inflexible legistlation doesn't leave room for "common sense" solutions.

If the WI, as a private organisation, wanted to be open to women and trans women, and not men, then the vast majority of people would be completely fine with that (as they apparently were for years anyway).

However, the 2010 equality act comes stomping in with its big boots, no doubt full of good intentions. And of course, in the interest of equality and fairness and preventing discrimination, states that services must be provided to everybody, regardless of any aspect of their identity, with only the specific exceptions outlined in the act allowed. One of those exceptions being for "single sex" spaces/services.

So basically if the equality act wasn't so heavy-handed, there wouldn't be a problem here.

 

[EnglishEdward]

@ Plotinus

Having a law that enabled a male rapist to declare themselves trans and be transferred
to a women's prison to obtain further opportunities for rape was a rather peculiar privilege.

Isla Bryson case - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

@ Manfred Belheim

Quite. Hence my perspective that the law is part of the problem not the solution.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

So you're just going to totally ignore my post about how trans people aren't actually priviledged?

What a waste of my time

 

[*CoughLies]

Assuming one person's response to one's thoughts, to be a success indicator of one's time, is to assume thier response is fundamental to one's success.

The current situation had arisen in part as a consequence

There is some truth to this but that is only a fraction of the struggle. The "top down" being referred to is unorganic. Insututions, be it religious, political, a combination of both, or what have you, use minorities & movents to force their own agednas. They don't need to make change themselves when they have thousands of activists or voters unknowingly working for them.

That is not to dismiss anyone's rights or struggles. The point to make is that while here we all are scraping for freedom, dignity, rights & recognition, we are actually being robbed by said institutions. Maybe communicate with the powers that be & see what kind of "civil" response you get to your thoughts. Then, let them lie to you, fall for it, so we can fall for it all over again but that time we are all worse off than before.

 

[danjuno]

Literal abuser logic here

"You made me hurt/discriminate against you"

Gross

If your life is so good that the biggest issue in your life is that trans people are being included when they've long been excluded, marginalized, killed and remived from society, life and history then you have some real problems that can only be dealt with by extensive therapy

"Minorities? Asking for rights? That's it! We're going to oppress them even harder!"

 

[EnglishEdward]

The "top down" being referred to is unorganic.

I agree.

Maybe communicate with the powers that be & see what kind of "civil" response you get to your thoughts.

Hardly worth it. One would merely get put on the list of dissidents.

Best response would be to vote but they have delayed local elections here to avoid being voted out.

 

[*CoughLies]

Best response would be to vote but they have delayed local elections here to avoid being voted out.

Hardly worth it. They're are there for a reason. Pushed forward if you will. If you're not spouting their agenda then you're a dissident. Either do something about it or enjoy your life & join a gaming forum.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

You try to explain the discrimination faced daily by trans people, the anxiety and at times dread of having to worry about what bathroom to use in public, the stares, the leers from the general public, the innuendo, the lumping in of trans people with sex offenders in the national conversation around safety of women and children or the growing reversal of our rights. They don't want to know or acknowledge it.

But they show no curiousity about the lived experiences of trans people, conversely they show alot of curiousity about finding ways to blame trans people or advocates for trans people.

Better people have explained their lived experience of being trans but it's all ignored and then we wonder why trans people are leaving this forum and why bad faith actors who are content to do anything but acknowledge our pain in favor of generalizing our discrimination to some quirk of the law, downplaying it at best or at worst tacitly misgendering and insulting us.

 

[Lexicus]

Boomers ruining everything right before they die:

 

[NovaKart]

Keir Starmer and Denmark’s PM have issued a joint letter on modernization of the ECHR around the asylum system, due to issues like the inability to deport convicted criminals. The problem is that it can take several years to make amendments to the ECHR and the problem could be that the UK is overly cautious in its courts following their regulations.

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[Birdjaguar]

Boomers ruining everything right before they die:

Biden is not a boomer.

 

[Lexicus]

Biden is not a boomer.

I mean this in the nicest way possible but you are doing the thing where you show your mom a meme and she goes "i don't get it, do you know this person??"

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm a leading edge boomer and we don't understand anything that has happened after 2001 let alone memes and short videos.