What is going on in the UK?

[Senethro]

Because it looks different from 10 years ago, let alone 20. And again, not for the better.
Why would that not be logical?



You don't see it.
Ok.
I mean you can disagree "no, everything looks normal and fine", sure , but "It doesn't make sense" isn't really an argument there, is it?

Why doesn't it make sense that I travel? I go on vacation twice per year, one of them often to Europe.
I travel for work.

Wait so this is all some second hand reverse weeb racism you're giving us?

 

[Kyriakos]

The average age in the Eu is around 45. Any significant (over 10%) immigration can indeed change such a society very fast, and most immigrants go to the major cities.

 

[Gorbles]

Because it looks different from 10 years ago, let alone 20. And again, not for the better.
Why would that not be logical?

Because you still keep visiting them. Why?

You don't see it.
Ok.

See what? You claimed cities were "unrecognisable". You offered zero specifics.

I mean you can disagree "no, everything looks normal and fine", sure , but "It doesn't make sense" isn't really an argument there, is it?

It does if cities are "unrecognisably worse" but you still for some reason keep visiting them.

That's what doesn't make sense. Not that you go travelling.

 

[danjuno]

"My dog has a broken leg."
"Yeah, but the cat is doing fine." (it isn't, but let's just pretend it is)

What about "has a major problem" do you not understand?
Go to a city in Europe. It's unrecognizable from 20 years ago. Even 10 years ago. And not for the better.

You can't be bothered to provide specifics, let alone evidence that these places are worse off due to immigration.

 

[Kyriakos]

You can't be bothered to provide specifics, let alone evidence that these places are worse off due to immigration.

When society is locked in recession and de-industrialization (as happens in 'Europe'), immigrants (in large numbers) can't give the natural boost they would elsewhere or in better periods.

 

[Arwon]

"My dog has a broken leg."
"Yeah, but the cat is doing fine." (it isn't, but let's just pretend it is)

What about "has a major problem" do you not understand?
Go to a city in Europe. It's unrecognizable from 20 years ago. Even 10 years ago. And not for the better.

Random reactionaries muttering darkly about how "cities are bad now" and expecting everyone else to just accept that as fact, would have to be one of the least interesting and persuasive rhetorical arguments imaginable.

 

[EnglishEdward]

It is called eyewitness testimony.

 

[Arwon]

Lmao it's not really either of those things

 

[Cloud_Strife]

It is called eyewitness testimony.

Couldn't be because of successive government's privatizing/selling every goddam thing off in order to fill their pockets, no it's gotta be those brown people

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Here's a hint; getting rid of all immigrants or people who you percieve to be immigrants isn't going to make your life or cities any better off

 

[EnglishEdward]

Lmao it's not really either of those things

Who are you to say what Theov has seen or experienced on visits to European cities ?

 

[EnglishEdward]

Here's a hint; getting rid of all immigrants or people who you percieve to be immigrants isn't going to make your life or cities any better off

As nobody here has proposed getting rid of all immigrants, that is an irrelevant post.

Substantive net immigration to the UK has not raised GDP/Capita in the last 20 years and
there is no reason to believe that further net immigration will do so in the next 20 years.

 

[danjuno]

Who are you to say what Theov has seen or experienced on visits to European cities ?

Not how burden of proof works; the burden is on them to provide proof.

Substantive net immigration to the UK has not raised GDP/Capita in the last 20 years and
there is no reason to believe that further net immigration will do so in the next 20 years.

Would stopping/reducing be beneficial, either?

 

[Arwon]

Who are you to say what Theov has seen or experienced on visits to European cities ?

There's no "testimony" there, for one thing. I haven't seen any specific claims made at all, it's all just vague mutterings. As best as I can tell, his "bad" is just the presence of people with migrant backgrounds. It's bad because there's migrants, because migrants are bad. It's like reading HP Lovecraft going into a race panic about the prospect of being around Catholics in early 20th century New York.

And tbh, brief visits to cities don't tell you much about them. Plenty of right wing crazy people who hate cities go to cities and still manage to have little grasp of what's going on there day to day.

 

[Theov]

Not how burden of proof works; the burden is on them to provide proof.

Would stopping/reducing be beneficial, either?

I don't have to prove anything.
If I feel like it's gone down the crapper, I feel like it's gone down the crapper.

But hey, keep pretending all is well. That always works.

 

[Zardnaar]

As nobody here has proposed getting rid of all immigrants, that is an irrelevant post.

Substantive net immigration to the UK has not raised GDP/Capita in the last 20 years and
there is no reason to believe that further net immigration will do so in the next 20 years.

Might fall further without immigration.

It was used as a sop to GDP here.

Its basically supply and demand. High immigration wouldnt be a problem with lots of houses/apartments.

Where you dource thr immigrants from is kind of separate debate inho (assimilation)

 

[Gorbles]

It is called eyewitness testimony.

I also have eyewitness testimony, but I guess it's not relevant because "reasons".

New Year, same old CFC

 

[EnglishEdward]

Might fall further without immigration.

There is GDP and there is GDP/capita.

And there are lightly populated countries and densely populated countries.

For lightly populated countries immigrants may well facilitate the farming of more
land, more intensive farming of the existing land, mining resources and building
transport infrastructure etc, and correspondingly grow the economy and GDP.

But for densely populated countries such as England and Greece, there is little
scope for that, so GDP can not grow in that way. While there may be a very small
increase in GDP arising from an increase in aggregate demand, the total GDP
gets split amongst a resultant larger population such that GDP/capita falls.

 

[Thorgalaeg]

Pretty simplistic analysis I would say.

 

[Kyriakos]

On a tangent: I wouldn't say that Greece is a "densely populated" country. It has almost exactly the same landmass (km^2) as England but only a little over 1/6 of its population (around 1/5 at most) ^^
It is extremely densely populated in the main cities, though.